[FRIAM] Democracy and evolution

Sun Dec 10 20:20:57 EST 2006

Jefferson, De Tocqueville et al. knew about the USSR?

-----Original Message-----
From: friam-bounces at redfish.com [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On
Behalf Of Mikhail Gorelkin
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 1:37 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Democracy and evolution

One more aspect of democracy: it was Western Elites' response to USSR's 
Social Project. --Mikhail

>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Re: Growth and Climate Change (Marcus G. Daniels)
>>    2. Re: Democracy and evolution (Douglass Carmichael)
>>    3. Re: Democracy and evolution (PPARYSKI at aol.com)
>>
>>
>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2006 14:02:36 -0700
>> From: "Marcus G. Daniels" <mgd at santafe.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Growth and Climate Change
>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>> <friam at redfish.com>
>> Message-ID: <457B246C.2050408 at santafe.edu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> Robert Cordingley wrote:
>>
>> > Here's a story to remind us to do full life cycle accounting of
>> > environmental improvements (with apologies to all the Prius owners
in
>> > SF and the batteries they use)
>> >
>
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_arti
cle_
> id=417227&in_page_id=1770
>> >
>> I understand that the 2008 Prius will use lithium batteries, not
Ni-MH.
>> Not enough uumph? Then set your sights on one of these:
>> http://www.teslamotors.com
>>
>> Also of perhaps of interest:  http://www.valence.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 19:50:19 -0800
>> From: "Douglass Carmichael" <doug at dougcarmichael.com>
>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Democracy and evolution
>> To: <sy at synapse9.com>, "'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
>> Group'" <friam at redfish.com>
>> Message-ID: <05ab01c71c0e$51768470$f4638d50$@com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Phil, I have been thinking about your comment that you will say
something
>> with implications and nobody responds, like your comment about  an
> economic
>> expansion based on our success till we collapse our environment by
eating
> up
>> our own surround.  And then you raise the question of bomb hardening
of
>> buildings...
>>
>> What of the work of Joseph Tainter, The Collapse of Complex
Societies..?
>>
>> To ideas he has
>> 1. societies overspend on infrastructure, and infrastructure costs
rise
>> faster than GDP, till all surplus is used up and a cost overshoot
> happens..
>>
>> 2. Elites own the infrastructure business and so are motivated to not
cut
>> back on costs.
>>
>> Your two ideas seem to fit this. Can a smarter human community avoid
the
>> evolutionary failures?
>>
>> Any contact with Tainter? I really admire his work. He has been at
the SF
>> Institute..
>>
>> Doug Carmichael
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: friam-bounces at redfish.com [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On
> Behalf
>> Of Phil Henshaw
>> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 10:58 AM
>> To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Democracy and evolution
>>
>> well... sort of...   For one of a million examples, if we multiply
our
>> impacts on the earth by adding 10 billion people this century, how
much
>> is that relieved by sending 50 or 100 people off to live somewhere
else
>> if they can???   Sometimes we should look at the numbers and the
timing
>> of things.
>>
>> It may raise more questons than it answers,... but another one I like
is
>> estimating the value of the bomb hardening of federal buildings, like
>> the one I'm building now, a big courthouse.   It probably adds at
least
>> 10 million to the cost.   If you guess there are at least 5000 higher
>> priority targets for terrorists in the US than a courthouse in
>> Mississippi, and terrorists wipe out one a year like clock work, that
>> means it'll be at least 5000 years before they get around to mine.
>> Given that the lifetime of the building is expected to be 100 years
it's
>> apparent that nature will build and destroy it at least 50 times
before
>> a terrorist does, and the lost opportunity cost of $10 million for
5000
>> years the way you normally calculate it at 3.5% return is 1.8*10^84.
>> That's a lot of bread!!
>>
>>
>> Phil Henshaw                       ????.?? ? `?.????
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> 680 Ft. Washington Ave
>> NY NY 10040
>> tel: 212-795-4844
>> e-mail: pfh at synapse9.com
>> explorations: www.synapse9.com
>>
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: friam-bounces at redfish.com
>> > [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of Marcus G. Daniels
>> > Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 12:28 AM
>> > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Democracy and evolution
>> >
>> >
>> > Phil Henshaw wrote:
>> >
>> > >We're simply not making a world that's possible to operate in a
huge
>> > >variety of ways.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > Here's one way to delay the apocalypse..
>> >
>>
http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/11/30/space.hawking.reut/index.html
>>
>> ============================================================
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>>
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>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 23:38:34 EST
>> From: PPARYSKI at aol.com
>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Democracy and evolution
>> To: friam at redfish.com
>> Message-ID: <bde.ad6ef10.32ace94a at aol.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Phil et al: I believe one of the key "popular" books which addresses
> these
>> issues of continuing economic expansion based on an exploitation of
> natural
>> resources with no regard to the environment and the natural systems
on
> which we
>> all depend, is Jared Diamond's Collapse.  In my mind, the economic
> systems
>> that we have produced cannot continue much longer and, if not us, our
> children
>> and grandchildren will face a much different, more difficult, more
> dangerous
>> world.  The proper use of some of our existing tools, such  as
> communication,
>> computers, modeling, complexity/chaos theories may help if  they are
> properly
>> applied and not just used to reinforce the current systems.
>>
>> For those of you who heard Ian's presentation on group animal
movement,
> we
>> might consider humanity to be more akin to locusts, who form swarms
out
> of
>> individual hunger and by biting their neighbors to move the group.
> Sigh.
>> Something to think about anyway.
>>
>> Paul Paryski
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>> End of Friam Digest, Vol 42, Issue 18
>> *************************************
>
>
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> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org