[FRIAM] recap on Rosen

[Ken Lloyd]

Phil,

Thank you for acknowledging the Popper / Penrose "Three Worlds" context.

Models exist in what Penrose refers to as the "Platonic world of
mathematical forms". Better models reflect both the spatio-temporal dynamics
of the context in which they exist and the mereology of their components -
meaning that often examining localized model components reveal little of the
nature of the system of the models.

While I am unqualified to address art imitating life, I can address models
of life imitating life. This is where the science of Compositional Pattern
Producing Networks holds advantage over more tradition methods.  In effect,
we evolve a Platonic world which discovers the mathematical forms,
independent of our subjective interpretation.

Ken 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: friam-bounces at redfish.com 
> [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of phil henshaw
> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 9:15 AM
> To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] recap on Rosen
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: friam-bounces at redfish.com 
> [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On 
> > Behalf Of Marcus G. Daniels
> > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 12:37 PM
> > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] recap on Rosen
> > 
> > phil henshaw wrote:
> > > I guess what I'm talking about is that the 'bubbles in our minds' 
> > > are different from the 'bubbles in the world'...
> > The `bubbles in our minds' must come from the world we 
> witness and say 
> > something about the world that will be witnessed.
> > They certainly don't need to be a literal interpretation.   
> Of course,
> > in social matters, there's a question of art imitating life 
> vs. life 
> > imitating art..
> 
> [ph] A couple of the big differences are that the 'bubbles in 
> our minds' are stitched together by personal and cultural 
> values, and they have lots of things of the world which are 
> continually changing represented by fixed
> images or definitions.   The 'bubbles in the world' are 
> organized around
> local physical processes, with lots of separate learning 
> system parts, which learn by exploring pathways THEY find.  
> The natural assumption then would be for their design to 
> always be changing in ways we can't see at all without some 
> hints of where to look.  It's one of the deep problems of knowledge.
> Acknowledging it is mainly just a solution for denying it, 
> but it also allows one to get a little warning about the 
> systems of the world that are
> behaving independent of our models for them.   
> 
> Does that help?
> 
> 
> > 
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> 
> 
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