[FRIAM] New Topic: Science-based Fundamentalism

Douglas Roberts doug at parrot-farm.net
Sun Nov 2 11:39:05 EST 2008

Very well said, Owen.


As the "assumer" who suggested that you had an unBubba-fied background, I
submit my heartfelt apologies.

Now, back to your original question: "Why is this race so close?", my
opinion is that religion is the major factor.  And yes, I correlate religion
with a lack of intelligence.  IMO, either less intelligent people are
attracted to fundamentalist-style religion, or religion makes smart people
stupid.  Don't know which it is; don't care -- the effect is the same.

Consider this:


*Soon after Sarah Palin was elected mayor of the foothill town of Wasilla,
Alaska, she startled a local music teacher by insisting in casual
conversation that men and dinosaurs coexisted on an Earth created 6,000
years ago -- about 65 million years after scientists say most dinosaurs
became extinct -- the teacher said.

I truly believe that the Republicans among us are attracted to this
Fundamentalist "Christian" orientation.  It is the Republican party that has
traditionally courted the conservative Christian component of our society,
and this is why I believe the race is as close as it is.  In suggesting
this, I am disagreeing with Steve's assessment that only 50% of the Red
voters are voting Red for religious/racist reasons, I suspect  that it is a
much higher percentage who are motivated to vote against a black Democrat
for these reasons.

I do agree with something that Roger said earlier -- that there really isn't
much difference (effectively) between between the two parties.  The
political system is large, inefficient, and hugely susceptible to
corruption.  I fully expect that if Obama wins, four (or eight) years latter
we will find ourselves disgusted with the corrupt, inefficient, back-biting
Democratic party.  I myself am an Independent, I do not believe that the
two-party system serves our best interests.

Since Owen has proposed a study in this general topic area, I'd like to add
my own suggestion for a research topic:  what percentage of the US
population is motivated to vote for the reasons demonstrated by this crowd:


and why has our society tolerated and fostered their belief set?


On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 9:07 PM, Owen Densmore <owen at backspaces.net> wrote:

> Very well said, Steve.  I probably should have been a bit more clear about
> my interest in the close vote.
> After the 2004 election, and the gawd awful disappointment that I felt:
> - That the dems would have such a horrid candidate
> - That idiots would still vote for Bush
> .. I started healing by looking for what was really happening.
> I found this critter:
>  http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2004/october6/onenation-106.html
> It pointed out that rather than being divided, we're not .. we're simply
> centrist and that creates a close election by its very nature.
> Look -- I understand our natural desire to consider "them" all idiots.  But
> we have family and friends who are "them".
> I was just chatting with my friend Boni Armijo, who's dad/family own
> Johny's Cash Store, across from our casita.  We talked about the election.
>  Boni (who's also on the city's development council) was clearly thoughtful
> about the election.  Last time he voted for Bush.  This time, he's for
> Obama.
> I *really* respect the Armijo family and the Rios family and others who
> live in my neighborhood.  They are considerate, thoughtful, warm people.
>  They have gently accepted my family into their town.  They have great good
> manners.  Yet we here on this list consider them "them".
> So rather than accepting fundamentalism as our great divide, I tend to
> think we are very centrist, and indeed, this is likely the cause of our
> close vote.  Thus my quip on the Central Limit Theorem.
> In an earlier post, it was assumed that I did not have particularly wide
> experience of the "rest of us".  I don't accept that.  I was raised in the
> south, with all the Bubbas.  I worked as a kid on construction gangs with
> "them".  My last two years of high school were in a Benedictine Abby because
> I was thrown out of all the high schools I attended before that.  I attended
> Georgia Tech.  I met my first yankees there.  I spent two years in the Peace
> Corps in Ghana, West Africa.  I was humbled by their sophistication.  I
> traveled widely in Europe.  I was amazed by their world.  I went to grad
> school at Syracuse, up state NY.  I was busted for political activity.  I've
> had dogs set upon me for thinking differently.  I tripped with Tim Leary.  I
> lived 6-8 years in a Buddhist community in Rochester NY.  I rode the .com
> boom/bust in Silly Vally.  I attend St. Francis cathedral.  And on it goes.
>  And I still find that "them" is "me".
>    -- Owen
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