[FRIAM] Young but distant (meaning old) galaxies, and quasars

[Jack Leibowitz]

I don't know whether I'm being addressed. Please assume that some others among us  are familiar with Prigogine ,etc.

I'm bowing out of all of this preening. Please exclude me from the e mail list hereafter. 

No offense intended. There seems to be nothing one can say that doesn't invite intellectual opportunism here. End
 
Jack
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Douglas Roberts 
  To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
  Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 6:44 PM
  Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Young but distant (meaning old) galaxies, and quasars


  Me, I'm a simulationist.  I run these large, complex population mobility ABMs in the utmost confidence that I can make the output support whichever claim happens to be the current politically expedient one.

  Pragmatism trumps vague Reductionism every time.

  --Doug


  On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 6:35 PM, Kenneth Lloyd <kalloyd at wattsys.com> wrote:

    John,

    I tend to be a Prigoginist, see: End of Certainty, Ilya Prigogine. I suggest you consider the case for thermodynamic non-equilibrium and the problem it creates for reductionism.  Some of us have come to understand complexity by modeling wavelet perturbations on temporally extended, recurrent, non-linear network graphs.  The results have been very enlightening.

    Caveat: such results have been met with great skepticism, if not total disbelief, within the FRIAM community.

    Ken



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      From: friam-bounces at redfish.com [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of John F. Kennison
      Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 12:08 PM
      To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
      Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Young but distant gallaxies




      Hi,

      I have been trying to figure out what my position on reductionism might be, but I am running into problems. Does reductionism mean a belief that the best strategy is always to analyze complex things in terms of simpler components (with, I presume, a small number of irreducible parts)? Or is it a belief that everything in nature is nothing more than a sum of simple components?

      --John


      On 9/5/08 12:13 PM, "Jack Leibowitz" <jrleib at earthlink.net> wrote:


        To Gunther:

        I dont think the word is horrible.
        Please note the quotes around the word in my e-mail.
        Jack
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Günther Greindl" <guenther.greindl at gmail.com>
        To: "The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group" <friam at redfish.com>
        Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 8:34 AM
        Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Young but distant gallaxies


        Hi,

        > This doesn't mean strictly remaining with restraints belonging under the
        > heading of that horrible word "reductionism".

        Why do you think that the word is horrible? (be specific please ;-)

        Cheers,
        Günther

        --
        Günther Greindl
        Department of Philosophy of Science
        University of Vienna
        guenther.greindl at univie.ac.at

        Blog: http://www.complexitystudies.org/
        Thesis: http://www.complexitystudies.org/proposal/


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        FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
        Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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        ============================================================
        FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
        Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
        lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org





    ============================================================
    FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
    Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
    lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org







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  ============================================================
  FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
  Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
  lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
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