[FRIAM] random v stochastic v indeterminate

[glen ☣]

I think Wagner and Monod agree, actually.  If I extrapolate what Jenny said Wagner said, *mutation's* randomness is a statement of ignorance, presumably about where innovation comes from in biological evolution.  So, both Monod and Wagner would say innovation comes from mutation.

On 08/09/2017 10:22 AM, Grant Holland wrote:
> According to Jacques Monod, chance mutations are the /only /form of innovation in living systems.
> 
> On p. 112 of  his book "Chance and Necessity" he says "...since they [chance mutations] constitute the /only/ possible source of modifications in the genetic text,...it necessarily follows that chance /alone/ is at the source of every innovation, of all creation in the biosphere. [Emphasis is his.]


> On 8/9/17 10:01 AM, Steven A Smith wrote:
>>
>> Jenny -
>>
>> What a powerful quote:
>>
>>     /Natural selection can //preserve//innovations, but it cannot
>>     create them./


>> On 8/9/17 8:56 AM, Jenny Quillien wrote:
>>>
>>> An excellent foray into such a topic is /Arrival of the Fittest: how nature innovates/ by Andreas Wagner.
>>>
>>> From the Preface:  the power of natural selection is beyond dispute, but this power has limits. Natural selection can /preserve/ innovations, but it cannot create them. And calling the change that creates them random is just another way of admitting our ignorance about it. Nature's any innovations- some uncannily perfect - call for natural principles that accelerate life's ability to innovate, its innovability.


-- 
☣ glen