[FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]

Sat Jan 28 15:18:58 EST 2017

I agree that we shouldn't have to feign interest in others' interests. I'm
not ready to pretend to like country music, go to church, praise military
adventures that I don't agree with, tell gays they are going to hell and
that god will heal them. At the same time, I don't see how it is productive
to make fun of peoples' faith and cultural tastes, although I've been
plenty guilty of that myself, feeding my own ego. Liberals can be just as
intolerant as conservatives, and we will only make progress when we start
to respect other peoples' views. Sometimes that just means sitting quietly
and not responding.

On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com>
wrote:

> Well, I find this article depressing but plausible.  Specifically,
>
>
>
> Andrés Miguel Rondón writes:
>
>
>
> “But it took opposition leaders 10 years to figure out that they needed to
> actually go to the slums and the countryside
> <https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2015/11/04/selfie/>. Not for a speech
> or a rally, but for a game of dominoes or to dance salsa — to show they
> were Venezuelans, too, that they weren’t just dour scolds and could hit a
> baseball, could tell a joke that landed. That they could break the tribal
> divide, come down off the billboards and show that they were real. This is
> not populism by other means. It is the only way of establishing your
> standing. It’s deciding not to live in an echo chamber. To press pause on
> the siren song of polarization.”
>
>
>
> Figuratively, I don’t want to play dominoes, dance salsa, or play
> baseball.  I have different interests.   I shouldn’t have to pretend.  They
> won’t pretend to me, that’s for sure.  This is not about polarization; this
> is about not wanting to get pulled into that attractor.   We have different
> lives.  That should be fine.  This is the United States and individualism
> is kind of a big thing here.
>
>
>
> Now what politicians and opposition leaders do to manage this problem is a
> different matter. That is about appearances not reality.
>
>
>
> Marcus
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> on behalf of "Robert J.
> Cordingley" <robert at cirrillian.com>
> *Reply-To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Date: *Saturday, January 28, 2017 at 11:34 AM
>
> *To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
>
>
>
> The Washington Post has an interesting essay from a Venezuelan on what to
> do and mostly what not to do.
>
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/01/
> 27/in-venezuela-we-couldnt-stop-chavez-dont-make-the-same-mistakes-we-did
>
> Robert C
>
>
>
>
>
> On 1/28/17 11:21 AM, Nick Thompson wrote:
>
> Ok Steve,
>
>
>
> The only reason to accept responsibility is to Take Charge.
>
>
>
> I have been able to think of only one concrete thing that I can do with my
> limited set of skills:  Write Apple and tell them to stop calling new
> products “I-this” and “I-that.”  When are they going to release the
> WE-phone.
>
>
>
> You must have something in your tool kit more effective than that!
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com
> <friam-bounces at redfish.com>] *On Behalf Of *Steven A Smith
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2017 9:38 AM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <friam at redfish.com> <friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> What can WE hobbits do?
>
> Scratch our hairy knuckles and indulge in second dinnerses?
>
> Fun aside, I DO appreciate your sentiment here and agree that the
> Narcissist in Chief is at least partly a (focused) reflection of our own
> worst qualities, and *perhaps* if we tend our own garden even a little, it
> will help with the greater picture.
>
> - Candide
>
>
>
>
> Nick
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com
> <friam-bounces at redfish.com>] *On Behalf Of *Jochen Fromm
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2017 1:39 AM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <friam at redfish.com> <friam at redfish.com>; Friam <Friam at redfish.com>
> <Friam at redfish.com>
> *Cc:* penny thompson <penny.thompson at earthlink.net>
> <penny.thompson at earthlink.net>; 'Bruce Simon' <bjs108 at yahoo.com>
> <bjs108 at yahoo.com>; 'Dix McComas' <dixmccomas2 at gmail.com>
> <dixmccomas2 at gmail.com>; 'Grant Franks' <grantfranks at earthlink.net>
> <grantfranks at earthlink.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
>
>
>
> Yes, agree. Trump’s point of view is “Whatever I can win with is true.”
>  And if he wins with what we call “a lie”, it is true for him. Exactly.
>
>
>
> If you ask how we can counter and resist him, then I would say peaceful
> protests are the right way. The women's march was impressive, and the
> rebellion of the social media managers from the national parks is really
> refreshing. Who would have thought that the national parks would strike
> back? Like Treebeard who becomes alive.
>
>
>
> In JK Rowling's novels it is the little creatures like the house elves
> that beat the evil in the end. In Tolkien's Lord of the Rings it is the
> Hobbits that beat the evil enemy. I think in this case people like Ken Bone
> are the Hobbits of the 21st century. The modern Hobbits are adverage
> midwestern guys who support Mr. T-Rump and his "party" on Twitter and hope
> to get a bit rich and famous along the way.
>
>
>
> People like Ken Bone are like Frodo the Hobbit, Mr. T-Rump is Sauron and
> Jack Dorsey is the ringwraith. Will Ken Bone throw the ring into Mt. Doom,
> i.e. will he stop following Trump on Twitter and/or quit Twitter
> completely? If we all stop following and listening him he loses his power.
> This includes the senior Republican politicians who do not speak up against
> him because they hope for a job in his administration.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Jochen
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Tricorder
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
>
> From: Nick Thompson <nickthompson at earthlink.net>
>
> Date: 1/28/17 01:57 (GMT+01:00)
>
> To: Friam <Friam at redfish.com>
>
> Cc: penny thompson <penny.thompson at earthlink.net>, 'Bruce Simon' <
> bjs108 at yahoo.com>, 'Dix McComas' <dixmccomas2 at gmail.com>, 'Grant Franks' <
> grantfranks at earthlink.net>
>
> Subject: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
>
>
>
> Hi everybody,
>
> I kind of got buried by the list last week, but we seem to keep coming
> back to this topic, even when we are  talking about globalism.
>
> So.  Let me just share one thought.  I have said a hundred times that I
> think the great achievement of the Right in my life time has been to
> problematize (Ugh!) the Deweyan consensus of the 1950’s  One of the
> elements of that consensus was that there is a truth of most matters and if
> we gather inclusively, talk calmly, reason closely, study carefully,
> investigate rigorously,  we will, together , come to it.  What was, at the
> time of my coming of age, the shared foundation of argument, became over
> last 50 years, * a position in the argument.  *The alternative to this
> Deweyan position seems to be something like, “*There is no truth of the
> matter; there is only the exercise of power.  He who wins the argument, by
> whatever means, wins the truth.  Truth is not something that is arrived at;
> it is won.”*
>
> So.  My sense of trump is that in fact, he is not lying.  On the contrary,
> he does not share the view of discourse that makes lying a possibility.
> From Trump’s point of view, “Whatever I can win with is true.”  Hence, if
> he wins with what we call “a lie”, it is true.
>
> I feel we are straying along the edge of some *Nietzschean *chasm here.
> Unfortunately  I haven’t read any Nietzsche .  A brief rummage in
> Wikipedia, led me to The Parable of the Madman
> <http://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/mod/nietzsche-madman.asp>. And THAT led
> me to wonder if the TV Series, Madmen
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Men>, about marketing execs in the
> 60’s, was written with Nietzsche in mind.  In any case, if there is ever a
> domain in which the truth is that which wins, it would be marketing.
>
> So, if we are going to counter Trump, it cannot be by demonstrating that
> he lies.  It has to be by demonstrating that liars don’t win.
>
> Heavy lift.
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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>
> --
>
> Cirrillian
>
> Web Design & Development
>
> Santa Fe, NM
>
> http://cirrillian.com
>
> 281-989-6272 (cell)
>
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