[FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
Steven A Smith
sasmyth at swcp.com
Sat Jan 28 23:40:30 EST 2017
Gary -
> There is a lot of gray area between standing up for principles
> (openness to new ideas, value of science and education, respect for
> rights of those with whom you disagree) and holier-than-thou
> self-righteousness, which is what I believe the "country folk" see as
> "elite". Step too far into that gray area and you get shot down,
> perhaps justifiably so.
I suppose the key for me is that I feel a lot less responsible for
worrying about these yokels "feelings" when I feel like part of the
underclass than I do when I feel like part of the overclass (elites?).
Not all ARE yokels in the colloquial sense and by many measures *I* am a
big yokel myself... but you get the drift. Oddly the (not so) loyal
opposition doesn't seem to have any such principles, they seem too often
to be "kick em while they are down" types, which allows me a bit of
satisfaction in "kicking THEM while *I* am down" or perhaps more aptly,
"kicking back". The satisfaction, I suppose, of standing up to a bully.
But the risk of this is always "becoming the bully". In my former life
as a libertarian/conservative, I felt that "liberal elites" WERE being
bullies themselves, and by golly I still often feel that way. I think
for example, that Hillary and the DNC bullied their way over the top of
Bernie and Jill, both of whom ARE pretty aligned with the DNC's espoused
principles. But compared to their opposition, they are pretty mild, is
the point.
>
> Steve, I haven't looked much at mesh networking, but it looks like
> nodes need to be within hundreds of meters of each other, which is
> definitely not my use case. And the Mesh Potato stuff seems to be
> mostly for voice, not IP. If we want to discuss this more, it would
> probably be better suited for a new topic on WedTech.
Sure, or we can take it offline. I think I brought it up on WedTech
over a year ago when I was working it actively and didn't hear any
interest. This class of mesh *does* require fairly close proximity,
but rather than hang, for example, a dozen Ubiquiti links on a dozen
households in an "island", one would backbone in with one or two and
then mesh out from there. It is also about community building and
being good neighbors. The fundamental tech IS IP, with VOIP on top,
they just make the VOIP very easy and very transparent and in some
contexts that is the main thing needed by the folks using it.
- Steve
>
> On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 3:53 PM, Steven A Smith <sasmyth at swcp.com
> <mailto:sasmyth at swcp.com>> wrote:
>
> Gary -
>
> I don't know if this is my own narcissistic self-indulgence, but
> as a one-time conservative (libertarian?) I am now so very aligned
> with the left *by* the rise of the right such that I feel deeply
> and passionately offended by this right-wing populism that is
> sweeping us. I feel more self-rightous about it than I ever
> have. Having them take power so roughly and rudely and against
> their own self-interest has triggered me in a way that reminds me
> of the way so many former smokers become virulently intolerant of
> smoking.
>
> I am trying to heed the warning of not losing to my enemy by
> becoming him... by falling into the trap of thinking the only way
> to defend against hate is with hate, the seduction of fighting
> fire with fire.
>
> But I do feel a certain sanctimonious pleasure in stepping up nose
> to nose with virtually every Trumpian in my circle and daring them
> to try to do a victory dance on my head or the heads of those I
> care about or identify with. I have never enjoyed the role of
> the underdog quite so acutely before... it has a certain
> deliciousness to it. I am responding with a very calm but firm NO
> to virtually every aspect of their agenda, most especially
> xenophobia, misogyny, misecology, and extractive/extortive
> capitalism.
>
> I believe *we* can be an overwhelmingly powerful "silent majority"
> in these times if we stand firm behind our beliefs (as varied in
> quality and degree as they may be).
>
> - Steve
>
> PS. have you looked at the world of Mesh Potato for 3rd world
> networking? I am vaguely set to bring that class of technology to
> my colleagues in Panama and in Kenya when the time is ripe.
>
>
> On 1/28/17 1:18 PM, Gary Schiltz wrote:
>> I agree that we shouldn't have to feign interest in others'
>> interests. I'm not ready to pretend to like country music, go to
>> church, praise military adventures that I don't agree with, tell
>> gays they are going to hell and that god will heal them. At the
>> same time, I don't see how it is productive to make fun of
>> peoples' faith and cultural tastes, although I've been plenty
>> guilty of that myself, feeding my own ego. Liberals can be just
>> as intolerant as conservatives, and we will only make progress
>> when we start to respect other peoples' views. Sometimes that
>> just means sitting quietly and not responding.
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Marcus Daniels
>> <marcus at snoutfarm.com <mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Well, I find this article depressing but plausible.
>> Specifically,
>>
>> Andrés Miguel Rondón writes:
>>
>> “But it took opposition leaders 10 years to figure out that
>> they needed to actually go to the slums and the countryside
>> <https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2015/11/04/selfie/>. Not
>> for a speech or a rally, but for a game of dominoes or to
>> dance salsa — to show they were Venezuelans, too, that they
>> weren’t just dour scolds and could hit a baseball, could tell
>> a joke that landed. That they could break the tribal divide,
>> come down off the billboards and show that they were real.
>> This is not populism by other means. It is the only way of
>> establishing your standing. It’s deciding not to live in an
>> echo chamber. To press pause on the siren song of polarization.”
>>
>> Figuratively, I don’t want to play dominoes, dance salsa, or
>> play baseball. I have different interests. I shouldn’t
>> have to pretend. They won’t pretend to me, that’s for sure.
>> This is not about polarization; this is about not wanting to
>> get pulled into that attractor. We have different lives.
>> That should be fine. This is the United States and
>> individualism is kind of a big thing here.
>>
>> Now what politicians and opposition leaders do to manage this
>> problem is a different matter. That is about appearances not
>> reality.
>>
>> Marcus
>>
>> *From: *Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com
>> <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> on behalf of "Robert J.
>> Cordingley" <robert at cirrillian.com
>> <mailto:robert at cirrillian.com>>
>> *Reply-To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
>> Group <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
>> *Date: *Saturday, January 28, 2017 at 11:34 AM
>>
>>
>> *To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>> <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
>> *Subject: *Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
>>
>> The Washington Post has an interesting essay from a
>> Venezuelan on what to do and mostly what not to do.
>>
>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/01/27/in-venezuela-we-couldnt-stop-chavez-dont-make-the-same-mistakes-we-did
>> <https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/01/27/in-venezuela-we-couldnt-stop-chavez-dont-make-the-same-mistakes-we-did>
>>
>> Robert C
>>
>> On 1/28/17 11:21 AM, Nick Thompson wrote:
>>
>> Ok Steve,
>>
>> The only reason to accept responsibility is to Take Charge.
>>
>> I have been able to think of only one concrete thing that
>> I can do with my limited set of skills: Write Apple and
>> tell them to stop calling new products “I-this” and
>> “I-that.” When are they going to release the WE-phone.
>>
>> You must have something in your tool kit more effective
>> than that!
>>
>> Nick
>>
>> Nicholas S. Thompson
>>
>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>>
>> Clark University
>>
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
>>
>> *From:*Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com
>> <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>] *On Behalf Of *Steven
>> A Smith
>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2017 9:38 AM
>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>> <friam at redfish.com> <mailto:friam at redfish.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> What can WE hobbits do?
>>
>> Scratch our hairy knuckles and indulge in second dinnerses?
>>
>> Fun aside, I DO appreciate your sentiment here and agree
>> that the Narcissist in Chief is at least partly a
>> (focused) reflection of our own worst qualities, and
>> *perhaps* if we tend our own garden even a little, it
>> will help with the greater picture.
>>
>> - Candide
>>
>>
>> Nick
>>
>> Nicholas S. Thompson
>>
>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>>
>> Clark University
>>
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
>>
>> *From:*Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com
>> <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>] *On Behalf Of
>> *Jochen Fromm
>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2017 1:39 AM
>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
>> Group <friam at redfish.com> <mailto:friam at redfish.com>;
>> Friam <Friam at redfish.com> <mailto:Friam at redfish.com>
>> *Cc:* penny thompson <penny.thompson at earthlink.net>
>> <mailto:penny.thompson at earthlink.net>; 'Bruce Simon'
>> <bjs108 at yahoo.com> <mailto:bjs108 at yahoo.com>; 'Dix
>> McComas' <dixmccomas2 at gmail.com>
>> <mailto:dixmccomas2 at gmail.com>; 'Grant Franks'
>> <grantfranks at earthlink.net>
>> <mailto:grantfranks at earthlink.net>
>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
>>
>> Yes, agree. Trump’s point of view is “Whatever I can
>> win with is true.” And if he wins with what we call
>> “a lie”, it is true for him. Exactly.
>>
>> If you ask how we can counter and resist him, then I
>> would say peaceful protests are the right way. The
>> women's march was impressive, and the rebellion of
>> the social media managers from the national parks is
>> really refreshing. Who would have thought that the
>> national parks would strike back? Like Treebeard who
>> becomes alive.
>>
>> In JK Rowling's novels it is the little creatures
>> like the house elves that beat the evil in the end.
>> In Tolkien's Lord of the Rings it is the Hobbits that
>> beat the evil enemy. I think in this case people like
>> Ken Bone are the Hobbits of the 21st century. The
>> modern Hobbits are adverage midwestern guys who
>> support Mr. T-Rump and his "party" on Twitter and
>> hope to get a bit rich and famous along the way.
>>
>> People like Ken Bone are like Frodo the Hobbit, Mr.
>> T-Rump is Sauron and Jack Dorsey is the ringwraith.
>> Will Ken Bone throw the ring into Mt. Doom, i.e. will
>> he stop following Trump on Twitter and/or quit
>> Twitter completely? If we all stop following and
>> listening him he loses his power. This includes the
>> senior Republican politicians who do not speak up
>> against him because they hope for a job in his
>> administration.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Jochen
>>
>> Sent from my Tricorder
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>>
>> From: Nick Thompson <nickthompson at earthlink.net
>> <mailto:nickthompson at earthlink.net>>
>>
>> Date: 1/28/17 01:57 (GMT+01:00)
>>
>> To: Friam <Friam at redfish.com <mailto:Friam at redfish.com>>
>>
>> Cc: penny thompson <penny.thompson at earthlink.net
>> <mailto:penny.thompson at earthlink.net>>, 'Bruce Simon'
>> <bjs108 at yahoo.com <mailto:bjs108 at yahoo.com>>, 'Dix
>> McComas' <dixmccomas2 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:dixmccomas2 at gmail.com>>, 'Grant Franks'
>> <grantfranks at earthlink.net
>> <mailto:grantfranks at earthlink.net>>
>>
>> Subject: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
>>
>> Hi everybody,
>>
>> I kind of got buried by the list last week, but we
>> seem to keep coming back to this topic, even when we
>> are talking about globalism.
>>
>> So. Let me just share one thought. I have said a
>> hundred times that I think the great achievement of
>> the Right in my life time has been to problematize
>> (Ugh!) the Deweyan consensus of the 1950’s One of
>> the elements of that consensus was that there is a
>> truth of most matters and if we gather inclusively,
>> talk calmly, reason closely, study carefully,
>> investigate rigorously, we will, together , come to
>> it. What was, at the time of my coming of age, the
>> shared foundation of argument, became over last 50
>> years, /a position in the argument. /The alternative
>> to this Deweyan position seems to be something like,
>> “/There is no truth of the matter; there is only the
>> exercise of power. He who wins the argument, by
>> whatever means, wins the truth. Truth is not
>> something that is arrived at; it is won.”/
>>
>> So. My sense of trump is that in fact, he is not
>> lying. On the contrary, he does not share the view
>> of discourse that makes lying a possibility. From
>> Trump’s point of view, “Whatever I can win with is
>> true.” Hence, if he wins with what we call “a lie”,
>> it is true.
>>
>> I feel we are straying along the edge of some
>> *Nietzschean *chasm here. Unfortunately I haven’t
>> read any Nietzsche . A brief rummage in Wikipedia,
>> led me to The Parable of the Madman
>> <http://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/mod/nietzsche-madman.asp>.
>> And THAT led me to wonder if the TV Series, Madmen
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Men>, about
>> marketing execs in the 60’s, was written with
>> Nietzsche in mind. In any case, if there is ever a
>> domain in which the truth is that which wins, it
>> would be marketing.
>>
>> So, if we are going to counter Trump, it cannot be by
>> demonstrating that he lies. It has to be by
>> demonstrating that liars don’t win.
>>
>> Heavy lift.
>>
>> Nick
>>
>> Nicholas S. Thompson
>>
>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>>
>> Clark University
>>
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> --
>>
>> Cirrillian
>>
>> Web Design & Development
>>
>> Santa Fe, NM
>>
>> http://cirrillian.com
>>
>> 281-989-6272 (cell)
>>
>> Member Design Corps of Santa Fe
>>
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