[FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
Steven A Smith
sasmyth at swcp.com
Sun Jan 29 00:03:08 EST 2017
Pamela -
Not to be (overly) ornery, but I *do* think that *an* Internet (global
digital communications network) was inevitable without Gov't investment
directly in *the Internet*... There were a plethora of online
communities managed roughly as bulletin board services, the Whole Earth
'Lectronic LInk (WELL)being one of the more notable ones at the time.
Some had begun to cross link... a sea of "star" networks beginning to
link up. The academic (mostly) Unix-to-Unix (UUNET) network was another
self-organizing, multi-scale network which could have blossomed more on
it's own had it not been subsumed into "Al Gore's Internet". ARPA and
NSF nets (as I remember it anecdotally) provided a lot of the more
robust backboning, one end of the power-law distribution of services
which DID accelerate full connectivity and high performance to a broader
audience.
But I *do* think your point about (many) Libertarians and others
*taking* from the commons without acknowledging their debt to it in word
OR deed, is well taken. I don't know if anyone has developed answers
for "the Tragedy of the Commons", but it seems like a pattern to inspect
and address in any case.
I also agree that the SHAPE of our computer technology may REFLECT our
narcissism as much as DRIVE it. As much as I love and respect the
political and social progress of the 60's, there came a second wave of
Narcissism on top of that which started (I think) with the boom of post
WWII industry and a consumer economy. It took 50+ years to reach the
untenable state we are in today.
- Steve
On 1/28/17 4:53 PM, Pamela McCorduck wrote:
> Before we blame any particular technology for what seems like an
> epidemic of narcissism, we ought to remember that the 80s—or was it
> the 70s?—were widely known as the Me Decade. Either way, long before
> social media.
>
> I’m always deeply amused by the libertarians who tell us how wicked
> government interference is at exactly the time they’re making their
> plush livings off a technology that wouldn’t have existed without
> decades (the fifties, the sixties, the seventies) of government
> investment. Would the Internet have happened anyway? Hard to imagine
> private investors sitting still for an investment that wouldn’t pay
> off for almost half a century.
>
> So, drifting afar from a reality base isn’t unknown in Silly Valley.
>
>
>> On Jan 28, 2017, at 2:31 PM, Nick Thompson
>> <nickthompson at earthlink.net <mailto:nickthompson at earthlink.net>> wrote:
>>
>> Steve –
>> Is there any way in which the computer industry has contributed to
>> the narcissistic pandemic that is sweeping the world. Is there
>> anything that participants in the computer industry could do tip the
>> world back toward a fact-based attractor?
>> If the answer to that question is no, then I suppose that starting
>> that barfight might be your highest and best use. Let me know which
>> bar you are going to, so I can come and watch.
>> But I think the question is yes.
>> Nick
>> Nicholas S. Thompson
>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>> Clark University
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
>> *From:*Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com]*On Behalf Of*Steven A
>> Smith
>> *Sent:*Saturday, January 28, 2017 1:15 PM
>> *To:*The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>> <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
>> *Subject:*Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
>> Toolkit? This rusty old box filled with rusty things that once
>> resembled sharp tools and useful fasteners?
>>
>> I was thinking that if we *all* burned one gallon of petrol *less* a
>> month (and everyone "like us") the demand would drop commensurately
>> and the cost/value proposition for the pipelines we all love to hate
>> would (eventually) drop below a certain threshold.
>>
>> Similarly, if we *all* made it a point to have one *more* thoughtful
>> conversation (not just a rant) with those not already in the choir,
>> we might reverse the tide of *ugly* populism and replace it with
>> something more human (maybe still a form of populism, but not
>> nationalistic/xenophobic/misogynistic?).
>>
>> If we *all* quit worrying about how the Trump Ascension was going to
>> hurt *our* personal context and recognized how it was going to hurt
>> (or in some twisted or strange way help) the larger context and then
>> only consider how our personal context would be effected in turn by
>> the larger context (is a happier, healthier, more informed society
>> good or bad for you and your family? vs can I pay lower taxes, get
>> more government services and be afforded less expensive access to
>> other resources nominally part of the commons?)
>>
>> et cetera, ad nauseum
>>
>> I know I'm preaching (somewhat) to the choir here, time to take my
>> own advice and go start a barfight with a Trumpian or something,
>> - Steve
>>
>>> Ok Steve,
>>> The only reason to accept responsibility is to Take Charge.
>>> I have been able to think of only one concrete thing that I can do
>>> with my limited set of skills: Write Apple and tell them to stop
>>> calling new products “I-this” and “I-that.” When are they going to
>>> release the WE-phone.
>>> You must have something in your tool kit more effective than that!
>>> Nick
>>> Nicholas S. Thompson
>>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>>> Clark University
>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>>> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
>>> *From:*Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com]*On Behalf Of*Steven
>>> A Smith
>>> *Sent:*Saturday, January 28, 2017 9:38 AM
>>> *To:*The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
>>> Group<friam at redfish.com> <mailto:friam at redfish.com>
>>> *Subject:*Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> What can WE hobbits do?
>>> Scratch our hairy knuckles and indulge in second dinnerses?
>>>
>>> Fun aside, I DO appreciate your sentiment here and agree that the
>>> Narcissist in Chief is at least partly a (focused) reflection of our
>>> own worst qualities, and *perhaps* if we tend our own garden even a
>>> little, it will help with the greater picture.
>>>
>>> - Candide
>>>
>>>
>>>> Nick
>>>> Nicholas S. Thompson
>>>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>>>> Clark University
>>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>>>> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
>>>> *From:*Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com]*On Behalf Of*Jochen
>>>> Fromm
>>>> *Sent:*Saturday, January 28, 2017 1:39 AM
>>>> *To:*The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
>>>> Group<friam at redfish.com> <mailto:friam at redfish.com>;
>>>> Friam<Friam at redfish.com> <mailto:Friam at redfish.com>
>>>> *Cc:*penny thompson<penny.thompson at earthlink.net>
>>>> <mailto:penny.thompson at earthlink.net>; 'Bruce
>>>> Simon'<bjs108 at yahoo.com> <mailto:bjs108 at yahoo.com>; 'Dix
>>>> McComas'<dixmccomas2 at gmail.com> <mailto:dixmccomas2 at gmail.com>;
>>>> 'Grant Franks'<grantfranks at earthlink.net>
>>>> <mailto:grantfranks at earthlink.net>
>>>> *Subject:*Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
>>>> Yes, agree. Trump’s point of view is “Whatever I can win with is
>>>> true.” And if he wins with what we call “a lie”, it is true for
>>>> him. Exactly.
>>>> If you ask how we can counter and resist him, then I would say
>>>> peaceful protests are the right way. The women's march was
>>>> impressive, and the rebellion of the social media managers from the
>>>> national parks is really refreshing. Who would have thought that
>>>> the national parks would strike back? Like Treebeard who becomes alive.
>>>> In JK Rowling's novels it is the little creatures like the house
>>>> elves that beat the evil in the end. In Tolkien's Lord of the Rings
>>>> it is the Hobbits that beat the evil enemy. I think in this case
>>>> people like Ken Bone are the Hobbits of the 21st century. The
>>>> modern Hobbits are adverage midwestern guys who support Mr. T-Rump
>>>> and his "party" on Twitter and hope to get a bit rich and famous
>>>> along the way.
>>>> People like Ken Bone are like Frodo the Hobbit, Mr. T-Rump is
>>>> Sauron and Jack Dorsey is the ringwraith. Will Ken Bone throw the
>>>> ring into Mt. Doom, i.e. will he stop following Trump on Twitter
>>>> and/or quit Twitter completely? If we all stop following and
>>>> listening him he loses his power. This includes the senior
>>>> Republican politicians who do not speak up against him because they
>>>> hope for a job in his administration.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Jochen
>>>> Sent from my Tricorder
>>>> -------- Original message --------
>>>> From: Nick Thompson <nickthompson at earthlink.net
>>>> <mailto:nickthompson at earthlink.net>>
>>>> Date: 1/28/17 01:57 (GMT+01:00)
>>>> To: Friam <Friam at redfish.com <mailto:Friam at redfish.com>>
>>>> Cc: penny thompson <penny.thompson at earthlink.net
>>>> <mailto:penny.thompson at earthlink.net>>, 'Bruce Simon'
>>>> <bjs108 at yahoo.com <mailto:bjs108 at yahoo.com>>, 'Dix McComas'
>>>> <dixmccomas2 at gmail.com <mailto:dixmccomas2 at gmail.com>>, 'Grant
>>>> Franks' <grantfranks at earthlink.net <mailto:grantfranks at earthlink.net>>
>>>> Subject: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
>>>> Hi everybody,
>>>> I kind of got buried by the list last week, but we seem to keep
>>>> coming back to this topic, even when we are talking about globalism.
>>>> So. Let me just share one thought. I have said a hundred times
>>>> that I think the great achievement of the Right in my life time has
>>>> been to problematize (Ugh!) the Deweyan consensus of the 1950’s
>>>> One of the elements of that consensus was that there is a truth of
>>>> most matters and if we gather inclusively, talk calmly, reason
>>>> closely, study carefully, investigate rigorously, we will,
>>>> together , come to it. What was, at the time of my coming of age,
>>>> the shared foundation of argument, became over last 50 years,/a
>>>> position in the argument. /The alternative to this Deweyan position
>>>> seems to be something like, “/There is no truth of the matter;
>>>> there is only the exercise of power. He who wins the argument, by
>>>> whatever means, wins the truth. Truth is not something that is
>>>> arrived at; it is won.”/
>>>> So. My sense of trump is that in fact, he is not lying. On the
>>>> contrary, he does not share the view of discourse that makes lying
>>>> a possibility. From Trump’s point of view, “Whatever I can win with
>>>> is true.” Hence, if he wins with what we call “a lie”, it is true.
>>>> I feel we are straying along the edge of some*Nietzschean*chasm
>>>> here. Unfortunately I haven’t read any Nietzsche . A brief
>>>> rummage in Wikipedia, led me toThe Parable of the Madman
>>>> <http://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/mod/nietzsche-madman.asp>. And THAT
>>>> led me to wonder if the TV Series,Madmen
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Men>, about marketing execs in
>>>> the 60’s, was written with Nietzsche in mind. In any case, if
>>>> there is ever a domain in which the truth is that which wins, it
>>>> would be marketing.
>>>> So, if we are going to counter Trump, it cannot be by demonstrating
>>>> that he lies. It has to be by demonstrating that liars don’t win.
>>>> Heavy lift.
>>>> Nick
>>>> Nicholas S. Thompson
>>>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>>>> Clark University
>>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>>>> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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>> ============================================================
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribehttp://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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>
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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