[FRIAM] tools, trollers, and language

Thu Jun 8 23:11:19 EDT 2017

Complex system and emergence reached their hype peak around 2,000. The
bubble burst for emergence
<https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=emergence&case_insensitive=on&year_start=1800&year_end=2008&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t4%3B%2Cemergence%3B%2Cc0%3B%2Cs0%3B%3Bemergence%3B%2Cc0%3B%3BEmergence%3B%2Cc0%3B%3BEMERGENCE%3B%2Cc0>,
but complex system
<https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=complex+system&case_insensitive=on&year_start=1800&year_end=2008&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t4%3B%2Ccomplex%20system%3B%2Cc0%3B%2Cs0%3B%3Bcomplex%20system%3B%2Cc0%3B%3BComplex%20System%3B%2Cc0>
seems to be hanging on. Unfortunately, Google's NGram viewer only goes up
to 2008.

On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 6:17 PM Nick Thompson <nickthompson at earthlink.net>
wrote:

> Dear All,
>
>
>
> I wonder the extent to which you would all agree that there is a bit of a
> complexity bubble: i.e., if you know the lingo, then you can understand the
> questions; if you don't know the lingo, then you can't understand what
> complexity people are on about.  So, one kind of project a group like us
> could work on is breaking out of the bubble.  That would require putting
> the complexity problem in a form that any ordinary mortal can understand.
> Here’s my attempt:  I think what you are up to is coming up with a general
> theory of creation, more general even than natural selection.  You want to
> offer a theory that accounts for the emergence of complex structures (*sensu
> Thompsoni*) in the universe.  Now that’s a program that anybody outside
> the bubble could understand.
>
>
>
> How wrong am I about that?
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of glen ?
> Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2017 6:39 PM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] tools, trollers, and language
>
>
>
>
>
> I think you and I on the same page.  My first thought (before the
> concept-mapping tools) was to collaboratively develop an ontology so that
> we could all talk about the same things.  But my guess is that would just
> cause even more hemming and hawing over terms.  Regardless of tools,
> someone needs to run point.  If there's a lead author and the other
> participants can "get behind" that author's objective, then it would work.
>
>
>
>
>
> On 06/08/2017 03:05 PM, Steven A Smith wrote:
>
> > I have found concept mapping tools to be helpful in this context, but
> usually in live-brainstorming sessions... with one (or more) operators
> clicking and typing and dragging and connecting while others chatter out
> loud, then shifting the mouse/keyboard(s) to another(s).
>
> >
>
> > I know we have a mind-mapping ( I prefer concept-mapping) tool developer
> on the list...  I'm blanking his name, though I know he has been active off
> and on!  I hope he catches this and pitches in.  I believe he was heading
> toward web-enabled, simultaneous editing capabilities.   I did some tests
> and provided some feedback on an early version a few years ago..
>
> >
>
> > My only significant experience in this is with CMAPtools and a few
> others driven by various project-lead's preferences, but never really
> adopted by myself.
>
> >
>
> > I was in the process of developing some more formal tools with UNM for
> the NSF a few years ago, based on formalisms being developed by Tim
> Goldsmith (dept. Psychology) at UNM.   The presumption WAS (IS) that we all
> have reserved lexicons and for a collaborative group to develop a common
> one, there has to be a lot of discussion and negotiation.  Our example was
> a group of climate change scientists who (un)surprisingly used identical
> terms in very similar contexts with very different intentions and meanings
> in some cases.   It isn't too surprising when you realize that an ocean
> scientist and an atmospheric scientist are very interested in many of the
> same physical properties, but with different emphasis and within different
> regimes.   Pressure, density, humidity, salinity, vorticity all seem to
> have pretty clear meanings to any scientist using them, but the relative
> importance and interaction between them has different implications for each
> group.
>
> >
>
> > Needless to say, we didn't finish the tools before the funding ran out.
> This is now nearly 8 years old work... the ideas area still valid but
> without a patron and without SME's to "test on" it is hard to push such
> tools forward.   My part included building the equivalent of what you call
> "mind maps" from the differing lexical elements, floating in N-space and
> "morphing" from each individual (or subgroup's) perspective to some kind of
> common perspective... with the intention of helping each individual or
> subgroup appreciate the *different* perspective of the others.
>
> >
>
> > This is modestly related to my work in "faceted ontologies" (also
> currently not under active development) where "multiple lexicons" is
> replaced by "multiple ontologies"   or in both cases, the superposition of
> multiple lexicons/ontologies.
>
> >
>
> > I haven't worked with Joslyn since that 2007? paper... but we *tried* a
> joint project with PNNL/NREL a couple of years ago, but it failed due to
> inter-laboratory politics I think.   He's an equally brilliant/oblique
> character as you...   take that for what it is worth!
>
> >
>
> > I liked Frank's double-dog-dare to you.   I think that is one of the
> good things you bring out in this list, all kinds of others' feistiness!
> It was also good that you could both call it for what it was.  It makes me
> want to read Kohut... I have special reasons for trying to apprehend
> alternate self-psychology models right now, though from your's and Frank's
> apparent avoidance(/dismissal?) of Kahut and my immediate phonetic
> slip-slide to Camus, I'm a little leery.
>
>
>
> --
>
> ☣ glen
>
>
>
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