[FRIAM] Model, Metaphor, Analogy

Steven A Smith sasmyth at swcp.com
Sat Jun 10 16:29:03 EDT 2017


And invoking the term "twist", he added a bit of Möbius Strip 
connotation!  It did feel ingenious to me as well.

As an odd aside, I'm designing a "feathered serpent" bas-relief design 
for the rocket mass heater I built last year in my sunroom...  I hadn't 
considered adding the Ourobousian nature to it!  The following is not my 
design, just one of many illustrative examples of the Tewa version:


Does a feathered serpent need to be more like a tapeworm to go 
Ourobourosianally Möbius?

- Sieve


On 6/10/17 1:35 PM, Russ Abbott wrote:
> I had never heard the word ouroboros 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros> before Dave used it. Thanks 
> for the term. But even though I had never heard the term, the 
> ouroboros was the image that came to mind when I first learned recursion!
>
> On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 12:22 PM Steven A Smith <sasmyth at swcp.com 
> <mailto:sasmyth at swcp.com>> wrote:
>
>     Dave -
>
>     Thanks for weighing in here, my own studies have not been so
>     formal nor probably as deep.   I have to admit to not knowing that
>     cognitive anthropology was a subject, just as Nick introduced me
>     to evolutionary psychology as it's own field!
>
>     I appreciate your introduction of /epiphor/, /paraphor/ and /dead
>     metaphor/.  I began a discursion here (which I fortunately
>     deleted) which lead me to read some MacCormac and more to the
>     point Philip Wheelwright on the modern, technical usage of
>     /epiphor/ and /diaphor/, from the Greek/Aristotelian /epiphoria/
>     and /diaphoria. /I particularly find your coining of /paraphor/,
>     as I think this is as common in our modern discourse/thinking as
>     "confirmation bias".
>
>     I also like your point that the "Scientific Method" is more
>     metaphor than reality, or more to the point, a narrative device to
>     show how a discovery "might have been made" when more often than
>     not, it was backed into while bumping around looking for something
>     entirely different, and often involving a "flash of insight"
>     before then being laboriously wrung out and demonstrated using the
>     somewhat more "engineering" oriented methods of the "Scientific
>     Method" to move from motivated hypothesis to strongly validated
>     theory.
>
>     I don't know if you regularly attend WedTech, but this depth/topic
>     of discussion might motivate me to make the long trek into town...
>
>     - Steve
>
>     On 6/10/17 9:36 AM, Prof David West wrote:
>>     long long ago, my master's thesis in computer science and my phd
>>     dissertation in cognitive anthropology dealt extensively with the
>>     issue of metaphor and model, specifically in the area of
>>     artificial intelligence and cognitive models of "mind." the very
>>     first academic papers I published dealt with this issue (They
>>     were in AI MAgazine, the 'journal of record' in the field at the
>>     time.
>>
>>     My own musings were deeply informed by the work of Earl R.
>>     MacCormac: /A Cognitive Theory of Metaphor/ and /Metaphor and
>>     Myth in Science and Religion./
>>
>>     MacCormac argues that metaphor 'evolves' from "epiphor" the first
>>     suggestion that something is like something else to either "dead
>>     metaphor" or "lexical term" depending on the extent to which
>>     referents suggested by the first 'something'  are confirmed to
>>     correlate to similar referents in the second "something." E.G. an
>>     atom is like a solar system suggests that a nucleus is like the
>>     sun and electrons are like planets plus orbits are at specific
>>     intervals and electrons can be moved from one orbit to another by
>>     adding energy (acceleration) just like any other satellite. As
>>     referents like this were confirmed the epiphor became a
>>     productive metaphor and a model, i.e. the Bohr model. Eventually,
>>     our increasing knowledge of atoms and particle/waves made it
>>     clear that the model/metaphor was 'wrong' in nearly every respect
>>     and the metaphor died. Its use in beginning chemistry suggests
>>     that it is still a useful tool for metaphorical thinking;
>>     modified to "what might you infer/reason, if you looked at an
>>     atom _as if_ it were a tiny solar system."
>>
>>     In the case of AI, the joint epiphors — the computer is like a
>>     mind, the mind is like a computer — should have rapidly become
>>     dead metaphors. Instead they became models "physical symbol
>>     system" and most in the community insisted that they were lexical
>>     terms (notably Pylyshyn, Newell, and Simon). To explain this, I
>>     added the idea of a "paraphor" to MacCormac's evolutionary
>>     sequence — a metaphor so ingrained in a paradigm that those
>>     thinking with that paradigm cannot perceive the obvious failures
>>     of the metaphor.
>>
>>     MacCormac's second book argues for the pervasiveness of the use
>>     and misuse of metaphor and its relationship to models
>>     (mathematical and iillustrative) in both science and religion.
>>     The "Scientific Method," the process of doing science, is itself
>>     a metaphor (at best) that should have become a dead metaphor as
>>     there is abundant evidence that 'science' is not done 'that way'
>>     but only after the fact as if it had been done that way. In an
>>     Ouroborosian twist, even MacCormac;s theory of metaphor is itself
>>     a metaphor.
>>
>>     If this thread attracts interest, I think the work of MacCormac
>>     would provide a rich mine of potential ideas and a framework for
>>     the discussion. Unfortunately, it mostly seems to be behind pay
>>     walls — the books and JSTOR or its ilk.
>>
>>     dave west
>>
>>
>>
>>     On Fri, Jun 9, 2017, at 03:11 PM, Steven A Smith wrote:
>>>     I meant to spawn a fresh proto-thread here, sorry.
>>>
>>>>     Given that we have been splitting hairs on terminology, I
>>>>     wanted to at least OPEN the topic that has been grazed over and
>>>>     over, and that is the distinction between Model, Metaphor, and
>>>>     Analogy.
>>>>
>>>>     I specifically mean
>>>>
>>>>      1. Mathematical Model
>>>>         <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_model>
>>>>      2. Conceptual Metaphor
>>>>         <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conceptual_metaphor>
>>>>      3. Formal Analogy <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy>
>>>>
>>>>     I don't know if this narrows it down enough to discuss but I
>>>>     think these three terms have been bandied about loosely and
>>>>     widely enough lately to deserve a little more explication?
>>>>
>>>>     I could rattle on for pages about my own
>>>>     usage/opinions/distinctions but trust that would just pollute a
>>>>     thread before it had a chance to start, if start it can.
>>>>
>>>>     A brief Google Search gave me THIS reference which looks
>>>>     promising, but as usual, I'm not willing to go past a paywall
>>>>     or beg a colleague/institution for access (I know LANL's
>>>>     reference library will probably get this for me if I go in there!).
>>>>
>>>>     http://www.blackwellreference.com/public/tocnode?id=g9780631221081_chunk_g97806312210818
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     ============================================================
>>>>     FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>>>     Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>>>>     to unsubscribehttp://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>>>     FRIAM-COMIChttp://friam-comic.blogspot.com/  by Dr. Strangelove
>>>
>>>     ============================================================
>>>     FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>>     Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>>>     to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>>     FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>>
>>
>>
>>     ============================================================
>>     FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>     Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>>     to unsubscribehttp://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>     FRIAM-COMIChttp://friam-comic.blogspot.com/  by Dr. Strangelove
>
>     ============================================================
>     FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>     Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>     to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>     FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20170610/31bf03c2/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: hornedserpent3.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 13809 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20170610/31bf03c2/attachment.jpg>


More information about the Friam mailing list