[FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

[Steven A Smith]

-
On 6/15/17 8:29 AM, Nick Thompson wrote:
> Or to put it even more simply, an onion is never an onion.

And the finger pointing is not the moon.

        /When Bodhidharma came to China, he saw that most Chinese
        learners did not grasp the truth of Buddhism. They merely sought
        it through interpretation of texts and thought of the changing
        phenomena all around them as real action. Bodhidharma wished to
        make these eager learners see that the finger pointing at the
        moon is not the moon itself. The real truth is nothing but one’s
        own mind./

        //

    //- Kuei-feng Tsung-mi (780-841) 

Responding to Glen's *mis* vs *pre*... I still contend that I understood 
Glen to still be discussing *Complex Systems* rather than the simple 
distinction of "level" vs "layer" as an abstraction using the analogy of 
(or should we say metaphor) of the Onion as the *source* and various 
types of structure such as "layer" and "level".

So I accept the claim that I tend to see most (if not all) language as 
rooted in metaphor... but that was not what lead me to *mis*register 
Glen's point.    From my point of view, Glen Zigged, while I remained on 
course.  Of course, from Glen's frame of reference, *he* was on a 
straight course and * Zagged.    That is why iterative discussion is 
required for conversation?

    *Barn's burnt down*

        Barn's burnt down --
        now
        I can see the moon.

    - Mizuta Masahide

>
> n
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
> Clark University
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of ?glen?
> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 9:31 AM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...
>
> On 06/14/2017 05:36 PM, Steven A Smith wrote:
>> Hairsplitting here (again), but I don't see what Nick or I did as *premature* registration, maybe *mis*registration?     Or am I being "premature" again?
> Well, you could be right.  But I do think it's premature, not merely mis-.  What I think happened was y'all had been pre-adapted to perceive the onion as a source and complex systems as the target.  Because of the conversation we were having, your perception was oriented that way.  All your conceptual categories were ready, waiting to filter/parse any incoming signals according to that structure.  You were a "complex systems perception machine".  So, pretty much _anything_ I said would have been interpreted/filtered according to that pre-adapted conceptual structure.
>
> Hence, when you started reading that email (wherein I tried to distinguish level vs layer with the onion example), your registration machinery was already engaged.  A way to avoid that _premature_ classification of what you saw would have been for you or Nick to read the email and ask whether that was the intention.  If, after asking, you had still decided it was what I intended, despite my saying it wasn't, then maybe it would be more correct to call it (merely) mis-registration.
>
> BC Smith's point is simply that we don't approach reality with a (completely) open mind.  We are structured to impute an organization on the ambient milieu.  And the fact that it was so difficult to break out of that preconceived structure of what we were talking about is evidence that it was premature, not merely mis-.
>
> We all do it.  It's the human/animal condition.
>
> --
> ␦glen?
>
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