[FRIAM] Harvard

Mon May 8 17:18:55 EDT 2017

Gary -

I went to a "Timber College" (Northern AZ) but the same holds for me... 
they could barely muster a BS program for Physics and I had to 
supplement my curiosity with graduate Math/Chemistry/Enginering courses 
while pursuing the Physics on my own and under the tutelage of my 
undergrad physics professors ( who all had PhD's themselves, some from 
"named Universities")  Had *I* gone to a "named University", maybe I'd 
be smarter or more well informed or more capable... but after 30 years 
at LANL i *rarely* found the fact of my educatational pedigree to get in 
my way in any *practical* way.  I learned SO MUCH more in the ensuing 
work years it is hard to imagine how a more expensive, "better" 
education might have made me more able... maybe sooner or in a more 
specialized way.

I don't begrudge those who had the resources or privilege to go to ultra 
expensive schools and in some cases, I think they got something really 
special (more as a consequence of a significant advisor/professor than 
the school itself).   If I *DO* begrudge them anything, it is the 
presumption (or sometimes outright declaration) that their education was 
proportionally more valuable or high quality than mine based on how much 
they spent.   My measly $600/semester made it possible for me to GO to 
college (I paid my own way, not grants, not loans, not parents... I 
worked and saved and worked).  I could have done my first two years a a 
community college at $200/semester, and would have if I had to to make 
it.  Some folks I worked alongside at LANL (and colleagues in academia, 
industry, and other labs) often were paying of $100,000 school loans for 
their education.  They felt that the money they had spent entitled them 
to extremely high salaries and special treatment and extra credit on 
their publications.   Maybe it did, but I was glad I did what I did and 
I *don't* think most of them were 2 or 10 times more able or insightful 
or productive than I was as they sometimes indicated.

My daughter went my route (self-funded, no loans, no grants) but with 
some tuition scholarships and a little more help from me than I got from 
my parents, but far from a free ride.  She is now 10 years into her 
career as a Molecular Biologist and has bounced off a glass ceiling or 
two and is JUST NOW starting to bounce off the academic pedigree 
snobbery.  She has friends from high school or undergrad who took the 
high/low road of ultra expensive education (she was UCSC/UNM) and some 
admit that their publications seem to fly through the review process 
based on their pedigrees.  She is a very critical reader of journal 
articles and is *appalled* at how much "crap" makes it through peer 
review.  I doubt she would claim that researchers from big-name 
pedigrees do *worse* work than those without, nor that there isn't some 
bias *toward* more likely being better work, but it is far from clear 
that her work is in any way inferior to that of those who seem to get a 
bit of a "free pass" because of their pedigree.

I would amend your statement of "a high degree of correlation between 
academic prowess of an institution and the expertise of it's alumni" to 
say a "a measureably positive degree of correlation".  If I had it all 
to do over again and resources were not an issue, I would pick my 
education based on one or two professors, no matter *what* institution 
they were at.

- Steve

On 5/8/17 12:35 PM, Gary Schiltz wrote:
> I didn't take part in the conversation Frank alludes to, nor do I want 
> details about it, but I just want to say that it pisses me off that it 
> has become politically correct to disparage folks who have done well 
> for themselves and gone to good schools. I myself went to a state 
> supported "cow college" (Kansas State University), so nobody can 
> accuse me of being part of the "elite". I don't begrudge people 
> getting the best education they can get, even if I had neither the 
> financial resources nor the grades to get into such schools. A degree 
> from a top-tier institution does not automatically confer "authority", 
> but it certainly doesn't weaken ones credentials either. I suspect 
> there is indeed a high degree of correlation between academic prowess 
> of an institution and the expertise of its alumni.
>
> On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Frank Wimberly <wimberly3 at gmail.com 
> <mailto:wimberly3 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     As many of you are aware, during a discussion of the beverage tax
>     I mentioned that my wife studied at the Harvard Graduate School of
>     Education which stimulated a small discussion of argument by
>     authority. During an in-person discussion at coffee there was a
>     similar dynamic.  I always wondered why my wife never told people
>     she went there.  When I met her she said she went to college "in
>     Boston". Now I understand better.  When I tell people that I went
>     to Berkeley the most common reaction is, "Were you there during
>     the Free Speech Movement?".  Harvard seems to be different.  When
>     my wife saw "The Social Network" the parts about the clubs and
>     going to Newport during the weekend made her feel ill. Friends,
>     lots of perfectly nice, normal people go to Harvard.  Relax.
>
>     Frank Wimberly
>     Phone (505) 670-9918
>
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