[FRIAM] Few of you ...

[Nick Thompson]

Steve, 

As a good friend, I would like to gently chide you for the implicit assumption that a the assignment of any behavioral automism to a particular physiological cause makes it more plausible as an automism.  It is what it is however it comes to be, isn't it?   Could it not have been imprinted in the few minutes after the puppies first opened their eyes and later transferred from Mom to owner as part of a normal developmental process?  Either way, it now is a behavioral automism, and like all behavior is the result of a physiological machine operating in a physical environment.  

Nick 

Nick 

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of Steven A Smith
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2019 4:20 PM
To: friam at redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

I appreciate the point:

 It's not the result of a dynamical system that occurs has occurred on the timescale of her life.

There may be psychochemical dynamical systems inside her body involved in maintaining "sight of you" and there likely *were* complex feedback loops in the intentional breeding of her ancestors as well as the natural selection environments that lead her first ancestor (whatever that is) to be chosen as "good stock to start a herding breed from".


On 1/16/19 4:07 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> I think of the "experience being with other people" as sort of like how my herding dog follows me from room to room.   There's a knob in her head that is set to keep a visual distance with her people.   It's what she expects and it comes from her breed.   It's not the result of a dynamical system that occurs has occurred on the timescale of her life.    It is a reductionist/thin/flat explanation for the dog and the basketball player and the choir singer.  
>
> On 1/16/19, 3:56 PM, "uǝlƃ ☣" <gepropella at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>     That's fine.  But it doesn't directly address the point.  Is experience-being-with-other-people really an "attractor" in the sense we usually use that term?  I don't think so.  I think the normal (complexity fanboi) sense of "attractor" is at least somewhat reductionist/thin/flat and not commensurate with phrases like "experience being with other people".
>     
>     If we simply decided these things are not attractors, then I think my problem dissolves.
>     
>     On 1/16/19 2:45 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>     > Some people participate in intramural sports or sing in a choir.    Such participation isn't about being the best at the sport, or aspiring to be the most talented musician.  As far as I can tell, they just like performing with other people.   It is about experience and participation.  It is an excuse to get together.   It is about being around people they recognize as similar to them.   (I feel like Commander Data observing the behavior of humans here..)
>     
>     
>     -- 
>     ☣ uǝlƃ
>     
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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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