[FRIAM] All hail confirmation bias!

Mon Jul 29 14:24:02 EDT 2019

I find this conversation depressing.  Carry on.

-----------------------------------
Frank Wimberly

My memoir:
https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly

My scientific publications:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2

Phone (505) 670-9918

On Mon, Jul 29, 2019, 11:23 AM Prof David West <profwest at fastmail.fm> wrote:

> Perforce, I am experiencing confusion.
>
> Sensations are impinging on the organism, the organism "organizes and
> interprets" them and, in some mysterious way presents a "coherent
> formulation" of them to a specialized aspect of the organism which, in
> turn, meta-interprets them as "an experience."
>
> Although the "experience" is in the foreground it is not dissociated from
> the "coherent formulation" which is context for the "experience;" nor is
> "experience" apart from the raw sensations which are context for the
> "coherent formulation." Indeed all is a whole.
>
> For whatever reason, the organism has learned to "notice" consistencies,
> i.e. approximations of the "same whole" that "recur" with some regularity.
> (Notice the need to invent linear time here, without any justification
> except that in the step following we come to believe in time as a shared
> experience.)
>
> Somewhere in the mists of prehistory another aspect of the organism "puts
> words" to the "experience" allowing multiple organisms to exchange words
> and discourse at great length as to whether or not they are sharing the
> same "experiences" and, if so, does such collective experiencing suggest a
> "provisional shared interpretation?"
>
> Enter the skeptic.
>
> The first thing I doubt is that word "provisional." I have been observing
> for a long time and I do not believe you are truly sincere about it - you
> use the verb "to be" far too frequently and with too much conviction to
> believe you. You are also way to comfortable equating the improbable with
> the impossible.
>
> The next thing I doubt are your words. There is a whole treatise here, but
> I will simply point to Gladstone's essay on "color in the age of Homer" and
> numerous writings on the "truth" behind the fallacy of Sapir--Whorfism.
>
> Then I doubt the "coherent formulation" noting that the construction of
> same is highly idiosyncratic and its "consistency" an artifact of laziness
> - "just send the old formulation along instead of making the effort to
> construct a new one from the data of the instant."
>
> Then I doubt the sensations, especially their origin apart from the
> sensory element of the organism that claimed to have been impinged.
>
> In parallel, of course, I have doubted the implicit "I" that is
> inescapable when  "words" come into the picture.
>
> Ultimately I doubt whether the totality of the "provisionally shared
> interpretations" (including of course all of science) can definitively be
> differentiated from the result of God on an eternal (instead of 15 minute)
> DMT trip.
>
> The skeptic merely doubts. The mystic claims that EXPERIENCE is a
> possibility - unmediated by "I" or sensation, or coherent formulations or
> words or provisional shared interpretations. Is this the "hope" being
> "mocked?"
>
> davew
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 29, 2019, at 4:21 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
> > Dave,
> >
> > "All is illusion" is exactly the kind of partial draught that I am
> > complaining about.  It clings to the very hope it mocks.  If skepticism
> > is what you desire, then there is no warrant to speak of anything
> > beyond experience, and experience is "of" nothing except  other
> > experiences.  So the only question becomes, To what extent is
> > experience organized.  Or is experience merely random.  If by "all is
> > illusion" you mean there are no consistencies in experience, then, of
> > course, you are welcome to that view, in the same way you are welcome
> > to the view that all the molecules in the lovely Dutch beer sitting in
> > front of you will instantaneously leap out of the glass,  roll across
> > the table, and jump into your mouth without any assistance from your
> > hands.   But I wouldn't bet on it.  If I wanted some of that beer, I
> > would reach for it.
> >
> >
> > Nick
> > Nicholas S. Thompson
> > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
> > Clark University
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of Prof David
> West
> > Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 2:18 AM
> > To: friam at redfish.com
> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] All hail confirmation bias!
> >
> > Nick stated:
> >
> > "I deplore a skepticism that drinks only 9/10ths of the potent, and
> > then puts the glass down, burps, and walks away with a smug look on its
> > face."
> >
> > Excepting the mystic who recognizes that "ALL is illusion," has anyone
> > drunk the full potent?
> >
> > davew
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 28, 2019, at 9:23 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
> > > While we're getting rid of concepts, let's just get rid of this
> > > foolish, unsubstantiated concept, "the world."  What sort of heuristic
> > > is THAT?
> > >
> > > N
> > >
> > > Nicholas S. Thompson
> > > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University
> > > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of Steven A
> > > Smith
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2019 11:41 AM
> > > To: friam at redfish.com
> > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] All hail confirmation bias!
> > >
> > > I KNEW that confirmation bias was a problem and NOW this confirms it!
> > >
> > > I TOLEYA!
> > >
> > > On 4/24/19 5:25 PM, uǝlƃ ☣ wrote:
> > > > Our World Isn't Organized into Levels
> > > > https://philpapers.org/rec/POTOWI?ref=mail
> > > >
> > > >> In my view, our adherence to the levels concept in the face of the
> > > >> systematic problems plaguing it amounts to a failure to recognize
> > > >> structure we’re imposing on the world, to instead mistake this as
> > > >> structure we are reading off the world. Attachment to the concept
> > > >> of levels of organization has, I think, contributed to
> > > >> underestimation of the complexity and variability of our world,
> > > >> including the significance of causal interaction across scales.
> > > >> This has also inhibited our ability to see limitations to our
> > > >> heuristic and to imagine other contrasting heuristics, heuristics
> > > >> that may bear more in common with what our world turns out to
> > > >> actually be like. Let’s at least entertain the possibility that the
> invocation of levels can mislead scientific and philosophical
> investigations more than it informs them. I suggest that the onus is on
> advocates of levels of organization to demonstrate the well-foundedness and
> usefulness of this concept.
> > >
> > > ============================================================
> > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe
> > > at St. John's College to unsubscribe
> > > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> > > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
> > >
> > >
> > > ============================================================
> > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe
> > > at St. John's College to unsubscribe
> > > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> > > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
> > >
> >
> > ============================================================
> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe
> > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
> >
> >
> > ============================================================
> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
> >
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> FRIAM-COMIC <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC>
> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20190729/6f63f9aa/attachment.html>