[FRIAM] excess meaning alert? (was, Re: are we how we behave?)

Sat Mar 9 09:14:06 EST 2019

I personally don't relate tangible, physical objects to mathematical ones
because you get into Hywel(RIP) territory. "If you measure it carefully
enough it's not a right triangle.  There are no right triangles".

-----------------------------------
Frank Wimberly

My memoir:
https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly

My scientific publications:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2

Phone (505) 670-9918

On Sat, Mar 9, 2019, 12:07 AM Nick Thompson <nickthompson at earthlink.net>
wrote:

> So a shroud is a manifold but not all manifolds are shrouds?
>
>
>
> N
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Frank
> Wimberly
> *Sent:* Friday, March 08, 2019 8:54 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] excess meaning alert? (was, Re: are we how we
> behave?)
>
>
>
> It's something you can move around on in a continuous way?
>
> -----------------------------------
> Frank Wimberly
>
> My memoir:
> https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly
>
> My scientific publications:
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2
>
> Phone (505) 670-9918
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 8, 2019, 8:52 PM Nick Thompson <nickthompson at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> I am sure it helps a lot of people;  just not me.
>
>
>
> I need a metaphor.
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Frank
> Wimberly
> *Sent:* Friday, March 08, 2019 8:43 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] excess meaning alert? (was, Re: are we how we
> behave?)
>
>
>
> Succinctly, and I may leave something out, a manifold is a topological
> space for which there is a homeomorphism between every open set and an open
> set in Rn for some n.  More concretely, lines and surfaces are manifolds
> but things get complicated in higher dimensions.  That probably doesn't
> help.
>
> -----------------------------------
> Frank Wimberly
>
> My memoir:
> https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly
>
> My scientific publications:
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2
>
> Phone (505) 670-9918
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 8, 2019, 8:27 PM Nick Thompson <nickthompson at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> Lee,
>
> Just to bend the thread a bit further, is "excess meaning" a term of art
> for
> you?  It seems very close to the term "surplus meaning" which was used in a
> famous article assigned to all Psychology graduate students in the sixties
> on the distinction between hypothetical constructs and intervening
> variables.  Wondering if  your term has the same meaning and if it has a
> life somewhere.
>
> As to the convex hull I went from there to the overturned boat in NCIS and
> thence to "manifold" which, when the term is deployed by mathematicians I
> always think of a shroud, like a blanket dropped over some lumpy thing to
> contain it, roughly.  Which, now that I mention it, makes me want to
> explain
> wtf you mathematicians mean when you use the word manifold.
>
> If that's not a thoroughly bent thread I don't know what is.
>
> Nick
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
> Clark University
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of
> lrudolph at meganet.net
> Sent: Friday, March 08, 2019 7:04 PM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
> Subject: [FRIAM] excess meaning alert? (was, Re: are we how we behave?)
>
> Steve writes in relevant part:
>
> > My position is that I favor each and every one of us taking whatever
> > responsibility for understanding our own "convex hull" of
> > capability/knowledge/intuition as we are capable of and "managing" it
> > to the best of our ability.
>
> The quotation marks around the phrase 'convex hull' and the word 'managing'
> presumably signal that they are being used non-literally, and (I guess)
> metaphorically.  I would particularly like Steve, if he is willing, to
> delve
> into the intended metaphor in the first case.  On the one hand, lots of my
> work uses more or less geometry; on the other, in lots of my other work I
> use metaphor; and I even think and write about metaphor.  So it's likely
> that I'm taking the metaphor more seriously than intended.
>
> With that disclaimer: in the technical contexts I'm familiar with, to pass
> from something X to the convex hull of X has the effect of (1) 'filling in
> holes in X', in a well-defined manner that is (2) as economical as possible
> and (3) (therefore) unique. Which (if any) of those properties are
> reflected, and how, in the case that X is our
> "capability/knowledge/intuition"?  ... I could ramble on a lot more but
> will
> start with that.
>
>
>
>
>
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> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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