[FRIAM] Friam Digest, Vol 189, Issue 40

Sun Mar 31 13:51:29 EDT 2019

Zingale must be a mathematician. An equation that captures the theory of
the adjacent possible is available.

On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 11:14 AM Jon Zingale <jonzingale at gmail.com> wrote:

> Adjacent possibles are neighborhoods in a comonad.
>
> On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 11:05 AM <friam-request at redfish.com> wrote:
>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Re: excess meaning alert? (was, Re: are we how we behave?)
>>       (Merle Lefkoff)
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Merle Lefkoff <merlelefkoff at gmail.com>
>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com
>> >
>> Cc:
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2019 11:05:35 -0600
>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] excess meaning alert? (was, Re: are we how we
>> behave?)
>> Nick, yes, we're very worried about the new "hard border" emerging
>> between N. Ireland and the Republic.  Another stupid consequence of
>> Brexit.  The Good Friday Agreement has always been fragile.
>>
>> We're having a meeting soon in Santa Fe about the adjacent possible, and
>> attached is what Stu Kauffman and I wrote about the intention of the
>> meeting.  I combine Western and Native science because some of our
>> international Indigenous network has expressed interest in being included
>> in the meeting. Steve Guerin can tell you more about the adjacent possible.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2019 at 9:24 PM Nick Thompson <nickthompson at earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> M
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Alright, then.  What IS the adjacent possible?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> N
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> PS – Given your work with the Irish Peace Process, this Dog’s Brexit t
>>> must be driving you nuts.  Have you heard the Donald Tusk quote about “the
>>> special place in Hell that awaits those who floated Brexit without a trace
>>> of a plan” .  Nothing more than that.  Just that.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nicholas S. Thompson
>>>
>>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>>>
>>> Clark University
>>>
>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Merle
>>> Lefkoff
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 30, 2019 1:35 PM
>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
>>> friam at redfish.com>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] excess meaning alert? (was, Re: are we how we
>>> behave?)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> N.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2019 at 1:30 PM Nick Thompson <
>>> nickthompson at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> M.,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Is that like “nudge”?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> N.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nicholas S. Thompson
>>>
>>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>>>
>>> Clark University
>>>
>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Merle
>>> Lefkoff
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 30, 2019 1:04 PM
>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
>>> friam at redfish.com>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] excess meaning alert? (was, Re: are we how we
>>> behave?)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For whatever it's worth, Nick, I'm now using this thread in the work
>>> we're doing on the adjacent possible.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 9:29 PM Nick Thompson <
>>> nickthompson at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Steve,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We were doing SO WELL until we got to … oh, see my “HORSEFEATHERS!”
>>> below.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nicholas S. Thompson
>>>
>>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>>>
>>> Clark University
>>>
>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven
>>> A Smith
>>> *Sent:* Friday, March 29, 2019 9:39 AM
>>> *To:* friam at redfish.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] excess meaning alert? (was, Re: are we how we
>>> behave?)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/28/19 1:20 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
>>>
>>> Steve, ‘n all,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Just to be cranky, I want to remind everybody that ALL language use,
>>> except perhaps tautological expressions, is metaphorical.
>>>
>>> I ascribe to this idea as well, following Lakoff and Johnson in their
>>> 1980 _Metaphors we Live by_ .
>>>
>>>   So then, the question is not, “Is this a metaphor”, but what kind of a
>>> metaphor is it and is it pernicious.
>>>
>>> I believe that ultimately conceptual metaphor is no more nor less than
>>> the intuitive application of a model, and as is often mentioned "all models
>>> are wrong, some are useful".    You use the term pernicious which suggests
>>> *harmful*, I presume either intentionally so or more from sloppiness or
>>> ignorance.
>>>
>>> My own view is that in any “tense” conversation – one in which the
>>> parties feel the words really matter – it behooves a metaphor-user to
>>> define the limits of the metaphor.
>>>
>>> I agree that "tense" conversations are different than "casual" ones if
>>> that is your distinction.  Unfortunately, outside of Science/Engineering
>>> contexts, I find that "tense" conversations are at their root political or
>>> at least rhetorical.   One or both sides are really *serious* about being
>>> believed.   If not believed in fact ("I believe what you just said") then
>>> in principle ("I believe that you believe what you just said").
>>>
>>> I think that political/rhetorical dialog would *benefit*  by careful
>>> disclosure of all metaphors being used, but one mode of such dialog is for
>>> one or both sides to attempt to interject equivocal meanings... to use a
>>> term (or in this case set of terms belonging to a metaphorical domain) to
>>> weave an *apparently* logical argument, which is only superficially logical
>>> but falls apart when the "correct" meaning of the term(s) are applied.
>>>
>>> So, for instance, much mischief has arisen in evolutionary biology from
>>> a failure of theorists to define the limits of their use of such metaphors
>>> as “natural selection” and “ adaptation”.  When limits are defined, the
>>> surplus meaning of a metaphor is separated into two parts, initially, that
>>> which the metaphor-user embraces and that which s/he disclaims.  The
>>> embraced part goes on to become the positive heuristic of the metaphor, the
>>> “wet edge” along which science develops.
>>>
>>> From this line of discussion, I take you to be on the branch of the
>>> fault-tree I implied above as a Scientific dialog where *both* sides of the
>>> discussion are honestly trying to come to mutual understanding and perhaps
>>> advance understanding by combining differing perspectives on the same
>>> phenomena.
>>>
>>> The disclaimed part, must be further divided into that which was
>>> legitimately [logically] disclaimed and that which was disclaimed
>>> fraudulently.  For instance, when sociobiologists use the notion of selfish
>>> gene, they may legitimately disclaim the idea that genes consciously choose
>>> between self-regarding and other-regarding options, but they cannot
>>> legitimately disclaim the idea that a gene has the power to make any choice
>>> but the self-regarding one.
>>>
>>> When Dawkins coined "Selfish Gene",  I felt that the *value* of the
>>> metaphor invoked was in the challenge it presents:
>>>
>>>   And that idea is patently false.  Genes do not make choices
>>>
>>> Patently Genes do not make choices in the sense that we usually mean
>>> "make choices", yet the strong implication is that the phenomena functions
>>> *as if* they do, in "all other ways".   There may be (useful) hairsplitting
>>> between "all other ways" and "many other ways" which is an important aspect
>>> of analogical thinking.
>>>
>>> , they ARE choices and the choice is made at the level of the phenotype
>>> or at the level of the population, depending on how one thinks about the
>>> matter.  So the metaphor ‘selfish gene’ is pernicious in evolutionary
>>> biology, because it creates confusion on the very point that it purports to
>>> clarify – the level at which differential replication operates to generate
>>> long term phenotypic change in a population.
>>>
>>> I would challenge this as I think my verbage above outlines.   I do not
>>> believe that the metaphor *purports* to clarify what you say it does.
>>>
>>> *[NST==>* *HORSEFEATHERS!** One or two generations of sociobiologists
>>> were directed away from group level explanations by this pernicious
>>> metaphor.  <==nst] *
>>>
>>> It *strives* to provide a cognitive shortcut and to establish a fairly
>>> strong metaphor which deserves careful dissection to understand the
>>> particulars of the *target domain*.   An important question in the target
>>> domain becomes "why does the shortcut of thinking of genes as selfish
>>> actually have some level of accuracy as a description of the phenomena when
>>> in fact the mechanisms involved do not support that directly?"
>>>
>>> *[NST==>I don’t think it does.  I think it’s a subtle and largely
>>> successful attempt to import Spenserian ideology in to evolutionary
>>> biology.  <==nst] *
>>>
>>> For all I know, EB has entirely debunked the concept and there is NO
>>> utility in the idea of a "selfish gene"...
>>>
>>> Bruce Sherwood likes to make the point that the analogy of hydraulic
>>> systems for DC circuits is misleading.   I forget the specifics of where he
>>> shows that the analogy breaks down, but it is well below (or above?) the
>>> level of "normal" DC circuit understanding and manipulation.   For the
>>> kinds of problems I work with using DC circuits, a "battery" is a "tank of
>>> water at some height", the Voltage out of the battery is the water
>>> Pressure, the amount of Current is the Volume of water, a Diode is a
>>> one-way valve,  a resistor is any hydraulic element which conserves water
>>> but reduces pressure through what is nominally friction, etc.    As you
>>> point out, there is plenty of "excess meaning" around hydraulics as source
>>> domain, and "insufficient meaning" around DC circuits as target domain, and
>>> if one is to use the analogy effectively one must either understand those
>>> over/under mappings, or be operating within only the smaller apt-portion of
>>> the domains.   For example, I don't know what the equivalent of an
>>> anti-hammer stub (probably a little like a capacitor in parallel?) is but
>>> that is no longer describing a simple DC circuit.
>>>
>>> *[NST==>I think I am back to heartily agreeing. <==nst] *
>>>
>>> A farmer buying his first tractor may try to understand it using the
>>> source domain of "draft animal" and can't go particularly wrong by doing
>>> things like "giving it a rest off and on to let it cool down", "planning to
>>> feed it well before expecting it to work", "putting it away, out of the
>>> elements when not in use", etc.  your "excess meaning" would seem to be
>>> things like the farmer going out and trying to top off the fuel every day
>>> even when he was not using the tractor, or maybe taking it out for a spin
>>> every day to keep it exercised and accustomed to being driven.   The farmer
>>> *might* understand "changing the oil" and "cleaning the plugs" and
>>> "adjusting the points" vaguely like "deworming" and "cleaning the hooves"
>>> but the analogy is pretty wide of the mark beyond the simple idea that
>>> "things need attending to".
>>>
>>> *[NST==>OoooooH.  I like the above!  May I plaigiarise it some day?  Do
>>> you by any chance know Epamanondas from your childhood.  Very politically
>>> incorrect, now, I fear, but endlessly instructive on the perils of over
>>> using metaphors.  <==nst] *
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> PS – Is anybody on this list (among the handful that have gotten this
>>> far in this post) familiar with the work of Douglas Walton?
>>>
>>> I just took a look and his work does sound interesting (and relevant).
>>>
>>> He seems perhaps to have written a lot about misunderstandings in AI
>>> systems … i.e., how does Siri know what we mean?
>>>
>>> By AI, it seems you mean (the subset of) Natural Language Understanding?
>>>
>>> I am also reminded by reading the Wikipedia article on his work that I
>>> haven't responded to Glen's question about the "theorem dependency project".
>>>
>>> I came to this work through my interest in abduction, which may be
>>> described as the process by which we identify (ascribe meaning to?)
>>> experiences.  Walton seems to suggest that you-guys are way ahead of the
>>> rest of us on the process of meaning ascription, and we all should go to
>>> school with you.  Please tell me where and when you offer the class.
>>>
>>> I assume the "you-guys" referred to here are the hard core CS/Modeling
>>> folks (e.g. Glen, Marcus, Dave, ...).  I do think that the challenges of
>>> "explaining things to a machine" do require some rigor, as does formal
>>> mathematics and systems like the aforementioned "theorem dependency
>>> project".
>>>
>>> - Steve
>>>
>>> PS.  It has been noted that my long-winded explanation of my (poorly
>>> adhered to) typographical conventions for around "reserved terms" and the
>>> like was perhaps defensive.  I didn't mean to sound defensive, I just
>>> wanted to be more precise and complete to (possibly) reduce
>>> misunderstandings.   I don't imagine many read the entireity of my
>>> missives, but as often as not,  when people do read and respond, I sense
>>> that some of my conventions are not recognized.
>>>
>>> ============================================================
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
>>> President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
>>> emergentdiplomacy.org
>>>
>>> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
>>>
>>> merlelefkoff at gmail.com <merlelefoff at gmail.com>
>>> mobile:  (303) 859-5609
>>> skype:  merle.lelfkoff2
>>>
>>> twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff
>>>
>>> ============================================================
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
>>> President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
>>> emergentdiplomacy.org
>>>
>>> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
>>>
>>> merlelefkoff at gmail.com <merlelefoff at gmail.com>
>>> mobile:  (303) 859-5609
>>> skype:  merle.lelfkoff2
>>>
>>> twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff
>>> ============================================================
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
>> President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
>> emergentdiplomacy.org
>> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
>> merlelefkoff at gmail.com <merlelefoff at gmail.com>
>> mobile:  (303) 859-5609
>> skype:  merle.lelfkoff2
>> twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff
>> _______________________________________________
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> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

-- 
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
merlelefkoff at gmail.com <merlelefoff at gmail.com>
mobile:  (303) 859-5609
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2
twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff
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