[FRIAM] capitalism vs. individualism

[uǝlƃ ☣]

There are several hem-and-haw phrasings you use in the below. 8^) For example, when you say "act as owners", you're relying on some concept of ownership that isn't at all present in what you're talking about. If this type of soft, permeable control you're calling "herding" and "symbiotic" is really all there is, then what does "owner" actually mean? Is it some ideal that never obtains in the real world? And if so, then why use the silly term?

And I didn't mean "egoism". I meant "egotism", conceit, an inflated sense of self that one works to maintain.

That qualitative difference between the cheese and the process/things by which the cheese is made bears some reflection. When teaching someone to, say, build a website with JavaScript or somesuch, they begin with some sense that it's magical or difficult or whatever. And by the end of it, they no longer feel that way. To me this happens with *every* thing I learn. So, the question results: Is that qualitative difference you feel between cheese vs. cheese-making simply one of ignorance?

Now, I admit there's a scale that matters. Just because I can make a nuclear reactor in my kitchen does *not* mean I can build the LHC. But for all scalable X-making (means of production), the distinction seems purely one of degree, not kind.

On 11/14/19 4:35 PM, Steven A Smith wrote:
> So I've moved from killing lizards in the wild, one at a time as I am
> hungry enough to eat them to domesticating and herding goats that I will
> guide to better pastures/water and protect from predators...    I am
> both "steward of" and "owner of" this herd...   the goats might be
> better off unherded, allowed to disperse and roam free, but for the sake
> of the example, let's imagine that they and I, with the help of a
> wolfhound actually do better off as a group than any of us would have
> done alone.  I and my wolfhound may act as *owners* of this herd and use
> controlling techniques (fencing, nipping at heels, etc.) to keep them
> close together and within the range of our ability to protect them from
> predators.   We also use similar techniques and technology to prevent
> others from taking control *from* us... be they predators or other
> wannabe herders who prefer to just take control of part or all of "our"
> herd rather than work their way up by capturing a pregnant wild goat and
> hand-raising it's kids so as to habituate/ingratiate them to the herder,
> etc.
> 
> And yes, this is a form of "egoism"... the herder thinking they "know
> what is best" for the goats (and wolfhound)...   but only to some degree
> since the operative term is "herd" not "krall" them... if the "herd"
> gets it in their head to disperse or run away, chances are they can... 
> but presumably a good herder establishes a symbiotic relationship.
> 
> But back closer to the original line of thinking, the distinction
> between owning a "thing" (a packet of cheese made from the goat's milk
> or a hair-shirt spun and woven from their hair) and controlling the
> means of  production (the herd, the territory within which they are
> herded/roam) still seems to be a meaningful one... maybe it is merely
> scale or quantity, but it feels like the extra level of indirection is
> important

-- 
☣ uǝlƃ