[FRIAM] capitalism vs. individualism

Fri Nov 15 10:13:54 EST 2019

Where does our resident hermeneuticist fit in the two following ideas?

 1. Axiomatic Statements
 2. The preamble of the US Constitution ("we hold these truths to be
    self-evident")

On 11/15/19 6:53 AM, Prof David West wrote:
> Nick mentioned earlier a concern about relativist talk in this thread.
> and Eric is using the term in his post. Lest hermeneuticism — a
> position I have been advocating — be confused/conflated with
> relativism (perhaps an unfounded fear), I wish to note the following:
>
> Hermeneutics (intellectual genealogy in previous post) asserts that
> all is interpretation. A corollary of that assertion is there are no
> "facts," no objective truths. A second corollary: there are no grounds
> to "privilege" one interpretation over another. (The point of
> deconstruction is, simply, exposure of the chain of interpretations
> and the reasons that they were adopted over alternatives.)
>
> A hermeneuticist would _not_ assert that "competence-incompetence,
> stupid-smart" lack tangible meaning. Nor would they say that "no point
> of view (interpretation) is better than another. Of course, "better"
> is a matter of interpretation.
>
> Asserting that all is interpretation is an invitation to engage in a
> conversation about "meaning" or "reality" from a level playing field —
> i.e. absent any grant of privilege to one interpretation over another;
> and, any expectation that somewhere, somehow, even the most consensual
> and widely shared interpretation can, or will, morph into some kind of
> "fact" or "truth."
>
> davew
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019, at 12:47 PM, Eric Charles wrote:
>>
>>     " A nihilist might adopt a campaign slogan like Any Functioning
>>     Adult 2020, because the truly objectionable things are
>>     incompetence and stupidity. "
>>
>>
>> But there's the rub in this conversation. "Any Functioning Adult
>> 2020" could be intended as a joke, pointing out that the current
>> president is so incompetent that literally any functional adult would
>> be better. OR, it could be a low-level nihilistic joke, made by
>> someone who knows full well there are no functional adults in the
>> race, and even if there were that person wouldn't be elected, and we
>> are all going to die meaningless deaths no matter who wins. (I
>> imagine that is what it sounds like translated into Russian, based on
>> my deep love of Dostoevsky). BUT, neither of those positions is a
>> relativist. 
>>
>> The relativist asserts that competence-incompetence and stupid-smart
>> have no tangible meaning.  
>>
>> Who is competent and who isn't? Eh, it depends on your point of view,
>> and no point of view is better than another. The designation of
>> "competence" is a colonialist activity providing illusory
>> justification for the marginalization already oppressed groups, and
>> while it has a valence, it has no basis in "reality" (i.e., it is
>> bad, you should stop doing it, and you should deeply hate yourself
>> for ever having had done it). To label the president as incompetent
>> is to inappropriately invalidate his way of being in the world; ways
>> of being are all equally valid. 
>>
>> Who is stupid and who isn't? Eh, it depends on your point of view,
>> and no point of view is better than another.....
>>
>> If you believe that SOME people ARE competent and/or smart, then you
>> can't be a relativist. If you believe there is still some chance that
>> competent and smart people can make a difference, you are not a
>> nihilist. 
>>
>> Old Soviet Joke: A man walks into a shop and asks, "You wouldn't
>> happen to have any fish, would you?". The shop assistant replies,
>> "You've got it wrong – ours is a butcher's shop. We don't have any
>> meat. You're looking for the fish shop across the road. There they
>> don't have any fish!"
>>
>>
>>
>> -----------
>> Eric P. Charles, Ph.D.
>> Department of Justice - Personnel Psychologist
>> American University - Adjunct Instructor
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 12:13 AM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com
>> <mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Nick writes:
>>
>>      
>>
>>     < What I see in much relativism is not fallibilism, which I
>>     endorse, but nihilistic fatalism**, which I deplore.  I am not
>>     sure I can argue either  for my endorsement OR my condemnation,
>>     but them’s my values.  Nihilistic fatalism is endorsed
>>     opportunistically by people like Putin because, while they
>>     themselves are planning for the “inevitable” collapse, they are
>>     arguing that there is no future in planning.  >
>>
>>      
>>
>>     IThere can be goals without ideology.  I think a nihilist would
>>     also have to agree there is also no harm in one value system
>>     stomping on another value system since they are both just value
>>     systems and so impoverished and arbitrary.    In that spirit, a
>>     progressive can be a nihilist simply to collect a partial
>>     ordering of different kinds of premises that serve one defined
>>     purpose or another, without taking those purposes too
>>     seriously.   A nihilist might adopt a campaign slogan like Any
>>     Functioning Adult 2020, because the truly objectionable things
>>     are incompetence and stupidity.
>>
>>      
>>
>>     Marcus
>>
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>
>
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> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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