[FRIAM] query and observation

[Prof David West]

this is the FRIAM I knew and loved,


As one of the deluded ones claiming direct, non intermediated, perception of that which is behind Hoffman's interface, his arguments are not surprising. Blaming the existence of the interface on evolution was kind of new and interesting.

It is the juxtaposition, entirely coincidental, of Hoffman with Heidegger, Gadamer, and the whole hermeneutic school of philosophy that caused the greatest amount of thinking. Although not a hermeneuticist per se, Peirce seems to be at minimum, a fellow traveler.

The claim by Hoffman, and all the physicists he cites, that the only thing we can know is the interface and whatever is behind that interface is not what everyone thinks it is, i.e. Objective Reality˛— seems to parallel the hermeneutic position that all we can know is the interpretation and whatever is behind the interpretation is not what every thinks it is, i.e. Truth.

Nick's monism seems. to me, to be similar with Behavior more or less the same thing as Interface or Interpretation.

Hoffman's argument that, because we are all humanoids and share the same spot in the evolutionary sequence, we share a common, mostly,  Interface made me think immediately of Rupert Sheldrake and morphogenetic fields.

It is not the book, in itself, it is the connections that are fascinating.

davew



On Fri, Sep 13, 2019, at 4:05 AM, glen∈ℂ wrote:
> Heh, I doubt you're missing my point. And please don't mistake my 
> defense/explanation of Hoffman as advocacy. I think it's interesting. 
> But he relies too much, IMO, on idealized modeling. So, I don't think 
> the interface idea is really all that important. But it is interesting.
> 
> To me, though, the way the interface idea directly impacts my 
> day-to-day actions is in facilitating my (already present) doubt about 
> any metaphysical claims. When some arbitrary person tells me *why* they 
> made some decision like accepting a job offer or whatever, Hoffman's 
> idea helps me understand their rationale. E.g. in the *simple* 
> strategy, where an agent makes their decision on the green/red 
> heuristic, if that agent *talks* in terms of green and red, then my 
> judgment of them is positive. If, however, that agent hand-waves 
> themselves into metaphysical hooha about why they made their decision, 
> then my judgment is negative.
> 
> Practically, we could talk about that the "singularity" is fideistic. 
> Or we could talk about Renee's son's belief in "the principle of 
> attraction". Or from cognitive behavior therapy, concepts like 
> "catastrophizing" are understandable in these terms. When a 15 year old 
> exclaims that "My parents will kill me" it's an exclamation that's not 
> very easy to understand for someone whose actually had someone try to 
> kill them. But if we understand the boundaries and extent of the 
> control surface one has access to, it makes the exclamation more 
> understandable.
> 
> I've mentioned this in the context of "code switching". The ability to 
> put oneself in the shoes of another depends, fundamentally, on 
> how/whether you can doff or don their "interface". More speculatively, 
> I've had a lot of trouble sympathizing with the idiots who voted for 
> Trump. But I can divide any 2 Trump supporters into those who *refuse* 
> to make "metaphysical" statements and those who adhere closely to "what 
> I thought at the time".
> 
> To me, the hygienic examples of heliocentrism etc. are impoverished. 
> The usefulness is more about how/when to recognize when someone's 
> "blowing smoke" or being authentic in describing their inner life. It's 
> possible the reason some of us might have trouble seeing how the idea 
> would matter is because *some* of us already doubt much/most of what  
> people, including our selves, say. And that we don't need the interface 
> idea to be so doubtful? 8^)
> 
> On 9/12/19 5:38 PM, Steven A Smith wrote:
> > I may be missing your point badly, but your response lead me to flip my
> > thinking inside out and ask myself just what I mean by "so what" and
> > realized that *might* be the central point to Hoffman's argument.
> > 
> > My "so what?" perhaps illuminates Hoffman's argument:   The utility of
> > my perception of the sun and moon as orbiting the earth (or actually
> > more typically of them arcing across the surface of  one or more fixed
> > domes) is higher in most contexts than perceiving them as being involved
> > in a much more abstract (albeit elegantly simpler?) relationship
> > formulized by GmM/r^2.   This "utility landscape" IS the fitness
> > landscape for evolution.    Obviously there must be "gateways" (passes,
> > tunnels, etc.) from the portion of this landscape we live in everyday to
> > the ones say where we are trying to predict uncommon astronomical
> > observations (e.g.  eclipses).
> > 
> > I didn't mean to suggest that I didn't think the work was important or
> > interesting or fundamental, only that I don't see how it changes how I
> > live my everyday life for the most part.   I am *literally* trying to
> > invert my metaperceptions to see how I could be directly aware that my
> > perceptions are an interface, not a direct response to reality... all
> > easy to do intellectually (once some thought has been put into it) but
> > not so easy to apprehend even indirectly?
> 
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