[FRIAM] Fwd: Question from Merle

Sun Jan 5 13:46:28 EST 2020

Thanks, Steve,

Nick 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of Stephen Guerin
Sent: Sunday, January 5, 2020 11:37 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
Cc: From: Lars Larsson <perslars at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: Question from Merle

Lars, Merle, Nick, and FRIAM members,

Thank you for taking the time to respond, Lars! It's an important first spark of interaction between two groups with Stockholm and Santa Fe as nexus.

To the FRIAM Group members, Steve Smith can probably give you a good summary of our brief but intense interaction with the Stockholm Community last month which has Lars as a generous, in the background, avoiding the spotlight, yet most powerful leader/organizer. 

Merle was magnificent as a facilitator. Perhaps there's a way we can facilitate an electronic exchange between the two groups as a kind of question and response could flow between the two communities. Or some process that has a feel of a  https://bohmdialogue.org/  ? We certainly need to be sharing ideas and coming to greater understanding without traveling great distances to accomplish it :-)

Lars, our FRIAM (Friday morning) Group mailing list has 351 members from around the world interested in theory and applications of Complexity. This email is on that list and your response is on that list.

The public archives are here"
   http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/  

and the context of Nick's question was on this thread:

  http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/climate-change-questions-td7594117.html 

-Stephen

--- -. .   ..-. .. ... ....   - .-- ---   ..-. .. ... ....

Stephen.Guerin at Redfish.com <mailto:Stephen.Guerin at Redfish.com> 

1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505

office: (505) 995-0206  mobile: (505) 577-5828   

tw: @redfishgroup  skype: redfishgroup

redfish.com <http://redfish.com/>   |  simtable.com <http://simtable.com/> 

On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 10:42 AM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com> > wrote:

Hi Merle, 

FWIW, not a philosopher; a psychologist ethologist.  And also an organic gardener, by the way, who began his career as such by reading Louis Bromfield.  So, Yes, let’s worry about soil life, too!

The manner in which Merle snipped my note blunted it’s main point.  The Holocene – roughly the last 12,000 years? – is marked by a dramatic decrease in year-to-year climate variability which brought the Pleistocene to an end.  This made sedentary human life possible and civilization as we know it, with its high concentrations of human activity and stunning population increases.  So far as I know, we don’t know what factors precipitated the Holocene, so we don’t know what factors might terminate it.  In short, the peaceful climate regimen in which we live and on which we depend is a bloody miracle.  This is what drives me nuts about the Gaia Hypothesis.  Sure, think of the biosphere as an organism, but don’t think of it as an organism that EVER had any interest in sustaining human life.  Or any life, for that matter, other than its own.  

But we all need to beware of Environment Derangement Syndrome, a state of mind in which we do nothing because it’s all so overwhelming.  What we all agree on, is that we cannot take things as they are for granted. You work on your insects, Merle can work on Global Warming, and I can sweat climate variability, and perhaps, if we all push really hard, we might, just MIGHT, just POSSIBLY, get another 12,000 years.  

Nick 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com> > On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Sunday, January 5, 2020 9:27 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com> >
Subject: [FRIAM] Fwd: Question from Merle

Nick, I presented your question about variability to our close Swedish colleague, Lars Larsson.  Here is his response below.

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Lars Larsson <perslars at hotmail.com <mailto:perslars at hotmail.com> >
Date: Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 6:10 AM
Subject: Sv: Question from Merle
To: Merle Lefkoff <merlelefkoff at gmail.com <mailto:merlelefkoff at gmail.com> >

Hej Merle,

All farming-land need a rotation of different crops. Some times perennial plants to increase the nitrogen and some time other crops.

So it means that we need a rotation program (3-5 year) and this different plant must stand the climate change.

A bigger problem is the insects. We need them for this rotation. I have been working with my local food program since we met in Stockholm.

I talk to fisher/hunters and they told me that this year the fishing was zero. So I talk to next village and next village and next village and everywhere the same problem.

So I find some experts (entomologist) of insects and they told me that the situation is catastrophic. The insect are  more or less extinct. In this clean country?

We cant focus on climate change, it is only a part of the problem. Just now, just here it is not a problem at all. The problem with lack of insects is worse.

The entomologists told me the they have warn the government years ago. The problem is the management of the forests and the pesticides from the farming.

This is two sensitive areas for the government so they did not listen. If the scientist was to tell about it they lost their titles so they could not tell the truth about it.

And it is still the same situation.

So in my topsoil improvement program I involve the insects and now it is emergency. We have 2-3 years to help them to survival. 

If the insects will be extinct the climate doesn't matter we can't survival. It takes millions of years to repair. Climate can be adjusted i 100 year if we want.

Kram

Lars

  _____  

Från: Merle Lefkoff <merlelefkoff at gmail.com <mailto:merlelefkoff at gmail.com> >
Skickat: den 5 januari 2020 07:54
Till: Lars Larsson <perslars at hotmail.com <mailto:perslars at hotmail.com> >
Ämne: Question from Merle 

A member of the complexity group here is a retired Philosophy professor.  I've got them all thinking about climate now, and here is what Nick wrote:

"I could (after some labor) cite data to support the following concern:  What we should be watching out for, perhaps more than long term climate warming, is increases in year-to-year climate variability.  

You can grow rape seed in Canada and maize in the US, and as the 
 climate alters, the bands of climate supporting these two crops will 
 move north.  But what happens if one year the climate demands one crop  and the next the other?  And the switch from one to the other is entirely unpredictable.

LARS--is this a good idea?  Do you have data on this?

-- 

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org <http://emergentdiplomacy.org> 

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

merlelefkoff at gmail.com <mailto:merlelefoff at gmail.com> 
mobile:  (303) 859-5609
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff

-- 

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org <http://emergentdiplomacy.org> 

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

merlelefkoff at gmail.com <mailto:merlelefoff at gmail.com> 
mobile:  (303) 859-5609
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff

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