[FRIAM] detritus from vFRIAM

[Prof David West]

Nick,

A second answer re: the entity that has self-interest: the Ghost in the Machine, Charlotte Johansen.

davew


On Fri, Jul 3, 2020, at 1:24 PM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com wrote:
> Thanks, Dave,

> 

> What is the self-interest that is being served in such a system. What is the entity that “has” the interest. 

> 

> Or am I trapping myself in some stupid loop, here.

> 

> n

> 

> Nicholas Thompson

> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

> Clark University

> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com

> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

> 

> 

> 


> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Prof David West
> *Sent:* Friday, July 3, 2020 1:19 PM
> *To:* friam at redfish.com
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] detritus from vFRIAM

> 

> Nick,

> 

> People write software that self-modifies, learns to shape current actions based on the results of prior actions, clones itself in order to maximize its share of some limited resource (memory or processor cycles) vis-a-vis competing software.

> 

> This kind of software, once created and deployed, is entirely autonomous. Creators might send messages asking the software to execute a particular behavior, but such messages have no special status, they are just another part of the context to which the software responds. The field is called "evolutionary software."

> 

> To me, this is an example of a system, that once deployed, is autonomous and acting on its own behalf. It is not aware of any "goals of the whole" only its own will to "thrive."

> 

> Not sure if this satisfied your request.

> 

> davew

> 

> 

> On Fri, Jul 3, 2020, at 1:06 PM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com wrote:

>> I tried to post this on the vFRIAM chat, but wouldn’t “take”, so I am posting it here:

>> 

>> “Don't do this now, but …. as a favor to me, could you-guys devote some of your shaving time this week to the proposition: "No system ever acts on its own behalf." My intuition is that whenever we investigate a system that appears to act in its own behalf, we will find that it is pursuing a goal that is short of the interest of the whole, but which will produce benefits to the whole because of some property of the world in which it acts. I would love to hear a discussion among people trying to design _a system that acts on its own behalf_. Can someone come up with a simple example of such a system.” 

>> 

>> I grant you that the question is not clear.

>> 

>> Thanks,

>> 

>> Nick

>> 

>> Nicholas Thompson

>> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

>> Clark University

>> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com

>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

>> 

>> 

>> 

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> 

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