[FRIAM] Illegal copies of your book

Sun Jul 5 17:26:42 EDT 2020

Sarbajit, 

Thanks for pulling that out for me.  No, I did not find it the first time.  I think it’s a wonderful use of metaphor.  Can you imagine our Supreme Court justices writing like that?  I would go to court just to hear that judgement read aloud! 

Nick 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of Sarbajit Roy
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2020 3:18 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Illegal copies of your book

Nick

I suspect you read the Wikipedia article rather than the actual judgement accessible here
https://indiankanoon.org/doc/114459608/

Paras 76 and 77 would amply clarify the Ld. appellate judge's state of mind immediately before they issued their direction in the next paragraph

"76. A lay person may question as to how a provision in a statute results in an interpretation where a right conferred on a person to use the work of another without any compensation would be just and fair. The question would obviously arise : Is it possible that a provision in a statute partially drowns another provision. This lay person would obviously desire, and perhaps logic would feed the desire, that no provision should be drowned or partially drowned. After all, in the melody of the statute all notes should be heard. 

77. We therefore answer this question, which certainly arises, using the imagery of music. A melody is the outcome of the sounds created when different instruments, such as a lute, flute, timbale, harp and drums are played in harmony. The notes of the instruments which are loud and resonating have to be controlled so that the sound of the delicate instruments can be heard. But it has to be kept in mind that at proper times the sound of the drums drowns out the sound of all other instruments under a deafening thunder of the brilliant beating of the drums. Thus, it is possible that the melody of a statute may at times require a particular Section, in a limited circumstance, to so outstretch itself that, within the confines of the limited circumstance, another Section or Sections may be muted."

I have nothing further to say about this judgment (or the judges and their Metaphors), except that it serves the cause of getting cheap (pirated) books into the hands of poor students.over here

Sarbajit

On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 2:15 AM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com> > wrote:

Those passages were abundantly clear, as you predicted.   I have to admit, the whole argument feels casuistic, even though I agree with its conclusion.  

But I was (as I often am) interested in the METAPHOR implicit in the other rendition I read

“It happens in law that footprints of one concept fall in the territory of other but that does not mean that the former should be restricted.."[3] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rameshwari_Photocopy_Service_shop_copyright_case#cite_note-:0-3> 

Do you have any idea what the writer had in mind?  I feel like there is some interesting thought there that I cannot quite grasp. 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com> > On Behalf Of Sarbajit Roy
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2020 2:33 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com> >
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Illegal copies of your book

Nick,
Let me only say, having some personal experience of the judge in question, that English is not the first, or even second, language of many superior court judges in India.

in my view, the original judgment under appeal is far better reading for its clarity of reasoning, especially paras 72 to 78
https://indiankanoon.org/doc/135895592/

rgds

Sarbajit

On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 10:39 PM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com> > wrote:

Sarbajit, 

Can you provide an exegesis of this wonderfully opaque passage from the judgement?

It happens in law that footprints of one concept fall in the territory of other but that does not mean that the former should be restricted.."[3] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rameshwari_Photocopy_Service_shop_copyright_case#cite_note-:0-3> 

I suspect that this is a translation of some proverb which has richness not rendered in the translation.  

Nick 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com> > On Behalf Of Sarbajit Roy
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2020 10:21 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com> >
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Illegal copies of your book

Dear Gillian

It's not an unpopular opinion at all.

The High Court at New Delhi, India considered these issues and said it's perfectly legal for a teacher to PHOTOCOPY or REPRODUCE chapters of over-priced/unaffordable/expensive foreign textbooks for the benefit of their students, AND that no royalty is to be paid to the book publishers.

The exceptionally well reasoned decision was upheld by the Supreme Court of India after the book publishers withdrew their appeals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rameshwari_Photocopy_Service_shop_copyright_case

So if you know anybody needing photocopies (2 cents per page of expensive books accessible to our vast library of PDFs and DJVUs, I would be happy to have them as my student ;-)

Sarbajit Roy

New Delhi, India

On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 7:24 AM Gillian Densmore <gil.densmore at gmail.com <mailto:gil.densmore at gmail.com> > wrote:

I'll put this out their as I suspect a unpopular opinion. It's be been my unfortunate experience teachers want ridiculously expensive specialty books. The most egregious was some prof for a management class that thought it'd be a good idea to drop 700 dollars on a book. Most of the class except some brown-noser agreed. He did EVENtUALLY relent to do case-studies inlue of the book. IMO I got more out of  reading and writing about actually cases of successful and unsuccessful management from real life than a 700 dollar book

When people wonder why books get pirated. That's probably why.

On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 6:03 PM Edward Angel <angel at cs.unm.edu <mailto:angel at cs.unm.edu> > wrote:

Yes. libgen is a mirror site for libgen.io <http://lingen.io>  that has everything on it. It gets taken down every once in a while. They lost a suit from the publishers but being located in Eastern Europe that doesn’t help. When I first went to the site, it asked me to turn off my add blocker so THEY could make some money. Then I looked at their donation tab and the only way to donate was via bitcoin or an Eastern European credit card.

Students tell me they all know about the site.

Ed

_______________________

Ed Angel

Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico

1017 Sierra Pinon

Santa Fe, NM 87501
505-984-0136 (home)   angel at cs.unm.edu <mailto:angel at cs.unm.edu> 

505-453-4944 (cell)  http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel

On Jul 4, 2020, at 5:58 PM, Roger Frye <frye.roger at gmail.com <mailto:frye.roger at gmail.com> > wrote:

Ed,

FYI: The latest edition that I see on the Israeli version of the pirate site (libgen.is <http://libgen.is/> ) is the 7th.

-Roger

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