[FRIAM] better simulating actual FriAMWe

Fri Jul 17 23:12:38 EDT 2020

Or  genetics ==> schizophrenia ==>Shaman (in some societies) ==> many offspring

Or two genes for schizophrenia leads to low reproductive outcome but ONE gene leads to genius.  

Either way the gene is retained in the population.  

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 8:16 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] better simulating actual FriAM

What about:

genetics -> schizophrenia -> psychotic behavior -> shortened life -> fewer offspring

Note that I am asking not asserting.

Frank

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz, 
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 6:35 PM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com> > wrote:

Glen, 

Notice, FWIW, that the original gen-phen distinction was understood to forbid  any information traveling from phen to gen. 

Nick 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com> > On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 5:32 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com> >
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] better simulating actual FriAM

In a project I was working on in the 70s we said that we were trying to identify phenotypic manifestations of a genetic predisposition to develop schizophrenia.  Does that work for you?

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz, 
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 5:27 PM uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ <gepropella at gmail.com <mailto:gepropella at gmail.com> > wrote:

Neither! Ha! As Colleen Green mumbles: "Once you get to know me, you won't love me anymore." https://youtu.be/ankOO77de7o

You're both a little wrong and a little right. The gen-phen map is inspired by genotype-phenotype. But liberties are taken with what it can mean. In particular, I've worked with some clinicians who call any pattern they're looking for in their patients a "phenotype". It's a very loose use of the word, but it gets the job done for them. For *me*, I tend to mean *only* systems where the phenomen[on|a] exert[s] some kind of downward causation on the generators (mostly just setting constraints). Maybe I should start calling it the phen-gen map instead?

On 7/17/20 4:00 PM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com>  wrote:
> At the very end you spoke of the generator/phenomenon distinction.  I bet Jon a million dollars that you did NOT mean the same thing as the genotype/phenotype distinction.  So.  Who's your friend, here? 

-- 
↙↙↙ uǝlƃ

- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> 
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC> 
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ 

- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> 
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20200717/f9d8a126/attachment.html>