[FRIAM] better simulating actual FriAM

[Frank Wimberly]

I'm not reading this carefully enough.  I am selling my car which involves
paperwork.

There are many systems with causal graphs with feedback loops.  In genetic
regulatory networks, for example.  Is that downward causation?

A classic example is the case if two ladders leaning against each other so
that neither one falls.  Each causes the other not to fall.

Frank

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 11:26 AM uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ <gepropella at gmail.com> wrote:

> Right. I'm ignorant of Weismann's doctrine. But it does seem to imply
> purely bottom-up causation. We *could*, I suppose talk of hierarchical
> systems where the causal flow only went upward ... maybe a bit like the
> causal cone defined by the speed of light in space-time. Everything within
> the cone is "same layer causation" and cross-cone relations might be the
> only time you'd need large-scale, collective effects. [⛧]
>
> The only way I can see to get any kind of downward causation in that case
> is through iteration, as I mentioned with the sticks (1st stick is
> completely free, 2nd stick is more constrained, ...). But you can remove
> time and replace it with some other requirement, like no/minimal space
> between tiles for sphere packing or, say, aperiodic tilings. In that case,
> it's not  only the tile shapes, but also *how many* of each shape you have
> that impinges on their (micro) placement.
>
>
>
> [⛧] This popped up this morning:
> https://uwaterloo.ca/astrophysics-centre/news/astrophysicists-release-largest-3d-map-universe-ever-created
>
> On 7/20/20 10:07 AM, Jon Zingale wrote:
> > Maybe I am misremembering (which clearly happens), but didn't the
> discussion
> > of gen-phen-like maps arise in the context of goal-function
> distinctions? In
> > this latter class, we included the thermostat system where constraining
> > systems to Weismann's doctrine would not be meaningful. Clearly, in the
> > goal-function system, an individual that changes the thermostat dial
> because
> > they prefer the house to be at 60 degrees rather than 80 degrees (a
> > variation on function) performs downwardly to affect the tolerance of the
> > piece of metal or mercury switch (a variation on goal). Are we breaking
> the
> > semantic game by now demanding that our admissable gen-phen-like maps
> > preserve Weismann's doctrine? I understood Glen's evocation to not be so
> > constrained.
>
>
> --
> ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ
>
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