[FRIAM] chicken-egg::gumflap-talk

[Steve Smith]

Glen -

It seems to me that when CHON molecules chain up and become lipids,
proteins, sugars etc.   and those in turn self-organize into
macromolecules of various kinds including membranes, vesicles,
microtubules, then organelles, cells, organs, organisms...   

I am not sure if by your logic/language that none of those "patterns"
upon which we impose "language" or "stories" to describe their
(seemingly?) pervasive patterning, are real?   Or going down from the
atomic elements of C, H, O, N that even those exist because
apparently/assuredly they are somehow composed of protons, neutrons,
electrons... then below that quarks or quantum-gravity loops or 9D
strings or ...

Again, I'm not trying to corner you or argue for a particular
perspective, just trying to observe, and learn from your Cook Ding
<https://navigatingthezhuangzi.weebly.com/cook-ding-cuts-up-an-ox.html>
technique. 

If I were to try to *argue* against what I think you are saying, I would
try to say that these higher level patterns (e.g. songlines) are
emergent and therefore as "real" as atomic elements, organic molecules,
macromolecules... on up?   Seeking a monomolecular occams razor.

- Steve


> Glen,
>
> It seems to me that you are arguing for a kind of strict materialism.
> To what ends is defining *the real* important to you?
>
> Jon
>
>
>
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