[FRIAM] Warring Darwinians for Glen, Steve

Tue May 5 12:00:55 EDT 2020

Frank, 

Now THAT’s an example of a break through.  If the next generation just married Alexa (“Yes, Matthew.  I thought you would never ask. When you like to tie the knot?”), that would settle the environmental problem pretty quick.  

Nick 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 6:44 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Warring Darwinians for Glen, Steve

My grandson uses his Echo Dot extensively.  A soft female voice answers his questions about spelling, arithmetic, geography, etc.  The other day he asked, understandably, "Alexa, will you marry me?"  She said, "I've decided to wait until Mars is colonized before making that commitment."  Good thinking.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz, 
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Tue, May 5, 2020, 5:39 AM Prof David West <profwest at fastmail.fm <mailto:profwest at fastmail.fm> > wrote:

Came across this yesterday afternoon:

"Psychology is not a science because it is too difficult. The scientific mind is  usually orderly, with a natural love for order. It resents and tends to ignore fields in which order is not readily apparent. It gravitates to fields in which order is easily found such as the physical sciences, and leaves more complex fields to those who play by ear, as it were. Thus we have a rigourous science of thermodynamics but are not like to have a science of psychodynamics for many years to come."

>From a Robert A. Heinlein book, Sixth Column, I read when I was an impressionable child. Not that he is correct, but I see where my antipathy to some science comes from. 

davew

On Tue, May 5, 2020, at 5:27 AM, Prof David West wrote:

Allow Nick to say "a computer behaves as if it is thinking, therefore it is thinking."

How does a computer behave? Or, what is a computer's behavior? I am looking at my computer - actually four of them (iPhone, tablet, laptop, and desktop) and the only behavior I see any of them exhibiting is precisely identical to the behavior of the glass paperweight that also occupies space on my desk.

What is this thinking behavior y'all are ascribing to the computer? Am I the only one that cannot see it?

davew

On Mon, May 4, 2020, at 9:34 PM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com>  wrote:

Yup.  That’s what he would say.  What persuades you that a super competent computer can’t think?  Can a dog think?  How would a Martian convince you that it (he, she) can think? 

Nick

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com> > On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly

Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 9:08 PM

To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com> >

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Warring Darwinians for Glen, Steve

Maybe I missed something that makes this redundant but if a highschool student asked me what the hard problem is I would say:  There appears to be no limit to how competent computers can be.  They seem to be able to do just about anything that people think requires thought.  But I am persuaded that they can't think.  What makes the difference between thinking people and hypercompetent computers? 

Nick would say if it behaves as if it thinks then it thinks.  I think.

Frank

On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 7:50 PM Steven A Smith <sasmyth at swcp.com <mailto:sasmyth at swcp.com> > wrote:

I thought this was a support group for recovering (or just

self-indulgent) metaphorists... you mean it's not?   Why do I feel like

I'm in a scene from "Fight Club"?   I guess that would make me more of

an allegorist?

> Is it? You people can't help yourselves. It's compulsive. You might want to get some help for that.

> 

> On 5/4/20 10:47 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:

>> Choosing one's rifle is so concrete.  It makes me want to run out and blow away a few cacti.  Oh, it's a metaphor!

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--

Frank Wimberly

140 Calle Ojo Feliz

Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918

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