[FRIAM] Peirce & Postmordernism

[Frank Wimberly]

A chimp yes; all the rest no.  I had a friend who had an African Gray
parrot.  He could say a number of things but there was no "there" there.

In my opinion.

On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 1:57 PM Steve Smith <sasmyth at swcp.com> wrote:

>
> On 5/23/20 9:15 AM, Gary Schiltz wrote:
>
> The observer problem. Does it require a human to do the observation? What
> about a parrot? A chimpanzee? An amoeba? A Turing machine?
>
> God, Gawdess, Gaia, Collective Intelligence?
>
>
> On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 9:47 AM Prof David West <profwest at fastmail.fm>
> wrote:
>
>> Peirce:
>>
>> "To satisfy our doubts, therefore, it is necessary that a method should
>> be found by which our beliefs may be determined by nothing human, but by
>> some external permanency—by something upon which our thinking has no
>> effect. ... Such is  the method of science. Its fundamental hypothesis,
>> restated in more familiar language, is this: There are Real things, whose
>> characters are entirely independent of our opinions about them; those Reals
>> affect our senses according to regular laws, and, though our sensations are
>> as different as our relations to the objects, yet, by taking advantage of
>> the laws of perception, we can ascertain by reasoning how things really and
>> truly are; and any man, if he have sufficient experience and he reason
>> enough about it, will be led to the one True conclusion."
>>
>> The above quote is a context from which I am about to take words and ask
>> questions. Those more familiar with the Peirce corpus in toto must admonish
>> me if I am being unfair, i.e. this quote is an outlier or an exception to
>> Peirce in general.
>>
>> 1- If "There are Real things, upon which our thinking has no effect," and
>> there are"beliefs"" and "doubts" and "reasoning" that are, arguably,
>> affected by our thoughts:
>>   a. Is Peirce a dualist? A Cartesian dualist that distinguishes between
>> an external permanency and internal thought?
>>   b. Are beliefs, doubts, reasoning 'Real things'?
>>
>> 2- Quantum physics has an "observer problem" that seems to imply that the
>> the "characters of Real things" are, in fact, affected by human thinking,
>> or, at least, human attention."
>>   a. Are there 'Real things'?
>>
>> 3- Weak postmodern objection: all beliefs and all methods are determined
>> by the human, technically the social, and there is no objective criteria by
>> which to give privilege over one human determined method/belief over
>> another..
>>   a. Does Peirce have grounds to privilege Reason over other
>> methods/beliefs, e.g.  'meditation', 'faith'?
>>
>> 4- Stronger postmodern objection: "the laws of perception," [the rules
>> of] reasoning," "sufficient experience," and "reason enough," taken
>> together, constrain the possible 'solution space' too severely; the 'one
>> [provisionally] True conclusion" is foregone — a product of the process,
>> not congruence with any "external permanency."
>>   a. What are the "laws" that govern how the Real affects our senses?
>>   b. What are the "laws of perception?"
>>   c. Does "sufficient experience" and "reason enough" mandate a narrow,
>> and intolerant, orthodoxy?
>>
>> davew
>>
>>
>>
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-- 
Frank Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz
Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918
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