[FRIAM] Covid and Politics

Thu May 28 17:15:17 EDT 2020

Yes. I have a few of those too.  When you shoot a rabbit with a .30-30 not
much is left to eat.  Also, the rabbits around here a suffering from a
Tularemia epidemic.  If a strawman argument is meant to ridicule an
opposing point of view you can say preposterous things.

That's not what I was doing.

Frank

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Thu, May 28, 2020, 3:10 PM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com> wrote:

>
> http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/rabbit-hemorrhagic-disease-cause-for-rabbit-mortality/
>
>
>
> And wouldn’t a 0.22 suffice?
>
>
>
> *From: *Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> on behalf of Frank Wimberly <
> wimberly3 at gmail.com>
> *Reply-To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Date: *Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 2:07 PM
> *To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [FRIAM] Covid and Politics
>
>
>
> Hey, I'm very familiar with the deserts of NM particularly those where I
> lived as a kid.  I'll take my .30-30 down there and just live on rabbit
> meat until this is over.
>
>
>
> ^straw man^.   I think.
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 28, 2020, 2:52 PM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Steve,
>
>
>
> Well, why not articulate the metaphor and start a new usage, to
> “stick-man” an argument,, i.e., to offer a highly simplified structure that
> others can flesh out.
>
>
>
> But I am much more serious about the white van program that perhaps I
> ought to confess to a coven of gun-toting libertarians.   And I take Cody
> to be about that serious about his summer camps.  As things presently roll
> along, we are slated to have 1k deaths a day, more or less indefinitely
> into the future.  That’s 400k deaths by the end of the year and at least a
> million before we get the vaccine, as the economy alternatively chokes and
> gasps for air under chaotic loosening ups and lock downs. .    The white
> van policy, cartoonishly represented I admit, is very close to  what we do
> with syphilis and used to do with TB and it will work..  We have started to
> think of ourselves as somehow in a post pandemic world and that we do not
> “deserve” to be quarantined.  The virus does care for deserts.
>
>
>
> n
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
> Clark University
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Steve Smith
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 28, 2020 2:30 PM
> *To:* friam at redfish.com
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Covid and Politics
>
>
>
> Nick -
>
> I think Cody's question is a good example of what *I* have tended to think
> of as a "Strawman" (other thread) but now will try to call maybe a stickman
> or an armature .   I don't think he posited it as a literal "I can't see
> why we just don't go do this tomorrow, it is a watertight idea that needs
> to be implemented *this instant*" but rather a general thrust of an idea
> that *invites* criticism and discussion.
>
> Marcus' point might have been a "show stopper" invalidating the whole
> idea, or I would prefer to frame it as providing a good complementary
> 'criticism'... a simple and direct reason for which such an idea *might
> not* be relevant at all.   Your own response takes Cody's idea more
> seriously than mine does...  you are looking to "flesh out" when and how it
> *might* make sense.   The nut of your observation here seems to be that in
> a year (or so) we will A) become desperate enough to risk harming our
> children deliberately (think measles parties in the 50s?) and B) we will
> have resolved questions as implied by Marcus (maybe the immunity is not
> strong or long lasting enough to be worth the risk, or maybe it is); and C)
> by then we will know how effective of a vaccine or alternative therapies
> will be available.
>
> Your own "white van" example I also take as a deliberately nearly-absurd
> example to draw fire, to find the complement to, to
> build-from-as-if-an-armature.   I'm not fully sure what all you gesture at
> with your white van and fortified la-bajada image, but I take it to suggest
> B) la-bajada: Isolating a community (like Gunnison CO did in 1918) and A)
> relaxing civil rights laws/regulations/expectations/standards to the point
> that anyone implied to be infected can be snatched by a biohazard-suited
> swat-team in a white van and tested and either released (with a thin or fat
> apology and maybe even reparations) or incarcerated in a gilded cage with
> lots of luxuries and top medical care until the infected becomes recovered
> and then released to "go forth and prosper"
>
> - Steve
>
>
>
> Interesting, Cody.
>
>
>
> I think if a vaccine weren’t within a year or so, such a policy might be
> entertained, unlike my suggestion of white vans plus shooting everybody who
> tries to come up la bajada.
>
>
>
> Who would staff it?  The staff would have to be isolated in the camp, too.
>
> Medical Staff would have to be really good.  A really good hospital would
> have to be quickly available.
>
> Parents would have to sign releases.
>
>
>
> Other than that, I can’t see why that doesn’t work.
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
> Clark University
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On
> Behalf Of *cody dooderson
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 28, 2020 8:12 AM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <friam at redfish.com> <friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Covid and Politics
>
>
>
>
>
> I had what I think is a great idea for herd immunity. What if the
> government were to open overnight summer camps, and even pay for every kid
> to spend 1 month canoeing, camping, and most importantly catching covid.
> This way they could gain a herd immunity so that school could safely open
> in September.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 27, 2020, 2:05 PM Steve Smith <sasmyth at swcp.com> wrote:
>
> Cody -
>
>
>
> Nothing in my search will be ready for the September deadline. Where did
> this deadline come from?
>
>
>
> I think September is a placeholder for:
>
>    1. Return to School (and the social mixing implied at all grade levels)
>    2. Acutely (equinox) shortening days of sunlight (UV on outdoor
>    surfaces and time spent out/indoors/close quarters)
>    3. Cooler weather (not sure that is anything but a proxy for 2?).
>
>
>
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