[FRIAM] Biden beats Trump

Sun Nov 8 14:55:21 EST 2020

Frank writes:

< There was a pretty girl that I had crush on in high school.  Margie was hyper conscientious and had a perfect GPA. >

Yes, that notion if we just hold things in place -- like with fences across the Mexico border -- then the conditions will hold so that some people like Margie will get perfect GPAs and have lovely children that are police offers and airline pilots.   Unfortunately, it's not like that.  Complexity happens<https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/04/magazine/societal-collapse.html>.

Marcus
________________________________
From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> on behalf of Frank Wimberly <wimberly3 at gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2020 12:36 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Biden beats Trump

Nick,

An experience:

There was a pretty girl that I had crush on in highschool.  Margie was hyper conscientious and had a perfect GPA.  We went to numerous formal dances and had friends in common but our "relationship" was entirely superficial in my opinion.  I eventually realized that she was very similar to my sisters whom I found kind of annoying. So, she was familiar but not much else.

We stayed in touch over the years.  She became an RN and had two manly sons--a police officer and an airline pilot.  A few months ago I became aware that she was a Trump supporter.  About a month ago I referred to him as incompetent and dishonest in a message to her.  She unfriended me on Facebook and didn't otherwise respond.  When my granddaughter was born on Monday I sent her a photo of the baby and said that she probably wasn't aware of the news because of the unfriending.  She said, "You know why I did that don't you?"  I said, "Because I criticized Trump?"  She said that it was because I put a thumbs up on the announcement of his Covid-19 diagnosis.  Now, I did not do that and I told her that.

For me, this was the most real interaction we had in the 60+ years we've known each other.  If we have no further contact it's fine with me.

Frank

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Sun, Nov 8, 2020, 11:32 AM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com<mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
Nick writes:

< That desire not to lose contact with my “enemy” is constitutional with me.  Your imperative is like telling me not to breath.  Somebody said, ‘A value is a principle that one is helpless to disobey.’ Anything  else is just moral positioning. >

What is an example of nuance in a Trumper's "argument" where you have been enriched intellectually, or where you gained insight into their tactics or strategy that you otherwise would have not gained?

When would it finally cross the line for you?    Does it ever cross the line?

Marcus
________________________________
From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com<mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> on behalf of thompnickson2 at gmail.com<mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com> <thompnickson2 at gmail.com<mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com>>
Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2020 11:14 AM
To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <friam at redfish.com<mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Biden beats Trump

Marcus,

That desire not to lose contact with my “enemy” is constitutional with me.  You imperative is like telling me not to breath.  Somebody said, ‘A value is a principle that one is helpless to disobey.’ Anything  else is just moral positioning.

Now mind you, I am all in for Ossoff.  (All On for Oss-OFF?) And Warnock.  I find the name Warnock so intriguing I would probably favor him even if he were a republican.

Where are you sending YOUR money?

Nick

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com<mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com>

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com<mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2020 11:33 AM
To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <friam at redfish.com<mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Biden beats Trump

< According to my benighted Deweyan, Liberal, Bleeding-Heart ethos, this fact implies a duty to reach  out to these folks and try to find some common ground  on which to stand and from which to work. But I have no idea where to start. >

Just don't.  Waste of time.  Let's keep our eyes on the ball.  Now is the time focus on taking the Ossoff seat.   I do hope Ms. Harris is (or can become) the monster Trump claims, and takes on the role of Cheney for the Dems.

Marcus

________________________________

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com<mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> on behalf of thompnickson2 at gmail.com<mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com> <thompnickson2 at gmail.com<mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com>>
Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2020 10:13 AM
To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <friam at redfish.com<mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Biden beats Trump

Jochen,

After my original bout of hysteria, I have been pretty sure that Biden was going to win this narrowly.  But this outcome hasn’t improved my mood.  Hysteria still lurks, because 70 million Americans, more than any that have voted for any other presidential candidate except Biden, have endorsed the Presidency of  Donald Trump.  That this fact should be beyond my comprehension shows me – as Dave West has been pointing out – the weakness of my model of the people I am living among.   Imagine how you would feel if 49 percent of the German electorate have voted for a neo-Nazi or 49 percent of the French had voted for Le Pen.

              According to my benighted Deweyan, Liberal, Bleeding-Heart ethos, this fact implies a duty to reach  out to these folks and try to find some common ground  on which to stand and from which to work. But I have no idea where to start.

But thanks for your good wishes.  Lord knows we will need them.

Nick

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com<mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com>

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com<mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> On Behalf Of Jochen Fromm
Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2020 4:19 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <Friam at redfish.com<mailto:Friam at redfish.com>>
Subject: [FRIAM] Biden beats Trump

America has been able to accomplish what Europe has not been able to do before WW II: stop fascism (in form of an authoritarian dictatorship) before it was able to take root in the system. Congratulations! It feels good that the old America is back. People are celebrating in the streets in NY and DC while team Trump is holding one of the last press conferences at the Four Seasons Total Landscaping (!) center in Philadelphia. It is hard to say what is bigger: the malice or the incompetence of team Trump. It is such a relief that we no longer have to hear each day about Trump.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/11/four-seasons-total-landscaping-trump-team-news-conference.html

-J.

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