[FRIAM] Getting You Libertarians' Goats

[thompnickson2 at gmail.com]

Dave, 

 

Ontology, schmontology.  As others have pointed out, mine is just a trivial
logical point.   Let the self (Sx) be any kind of thing (Tx) at all.  Let
assembly be a process of putting things together to make a new thing.  S1 +
T1 = S2 + T2 = etc.  At each point the self that is assembled is not the
self that is assembling, no?  I think, on the whole, it would be better if
we spoke not of self assembly, but of scaffolding where something external
to the structure being formed, facilitates the formation of the structure.
So at each stage in the assembly, the previous stage "scaffolds" the next.
White smokers scaffolded the formation of life. Life scaffolded the further
evolution of life.  The genome is a scaffold for natural selection.  

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/>
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of Prof David West
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2020 8:04 AM
To: friam at redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Getting You Libertarians' Goats

 

Nick,

 

" I am always troubled by the notion of "self-assembly" since the self that
is

assembling is never, by definition, the self that is assembled."

 

By what definition? Your monist view that the self lacks ontological status
in the first place?

 

davew

 

 

On Wed, Oct 28, 2020, at 5:48 PM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com
<mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com>  wrote:

> Jon,

> 

> Is a steam governor a case of downward causation?

> 

> This question will reveal, no doubt, that I don't understand  your
previous

> answer, but perhaps others will explain it to me. 

> 

> I am always troubled by the notion of "self-assembly" since the self that
is

> assembling is never, by definition, the self that is assembled. 

> 

> Perhaps I am getting tangled up in words again. 

> 

> n

> 

> Nicholas Thompson

> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

> Clark University

> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com> 

> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

>  

> 

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>
> On Behalf Of jon zingale

> Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 2:01 PM

> To: friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com> 

> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Getting You Libertarians' Goats

> 

> Nick,

> 

> Let's say I have a language designed to work with sticks, where for

> instance, it makes sense to name certain relations *Triangle*.
Additionally,

> let's assume that the language is detailed enough to include less obvious

> relations such as those which relate sticks to trees to soil and water.

> Would it be cheap to narrowly define *downward causation* as the

> manipulation of the world in accordance with this language to produce new

> sticks?

> 

> Consider as another example when one manipulates charge in bulk using
analog

> filters. Here, a circuit designer may not need to know about spin or

> superposition or a lot of other details about the universe. In fact, the

> designer may not know how to write a "mid-frequency ranged filter" if they

> were only given a quantum mechanical view of the world. They may, however,

> know how to build such a filter if they are given appropriately shaped

> conductive surfaces and coils.

> 

> My apologies in advance if this characterization (that of reducing
*downward

> causation* to manipulation of a domain-specific language) is horribly

> flawed, but I spent this much time writing a response. So, there.

> 

> 

> 

> --

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