[FRIAM] water, again (was murder offsets)

Wed Apr 21 11:16:47 EDT 2021

There was a book review in Science last week, sort of the book that Google
wasn't going to let Timnit Gebru write on their nickel.

AI empires

   1. [reviewed by] Michael Spezio

Atlas of AI: Power, Politics, and the Planetary Costs of Artificial
Intelligence *Kate Crawford* Yale University Press, 2021. 336 pp.

Kate Crawford's new book, *Atlas of AI*, is a sweeping view of artificial
intelligence (AI) that frames the technology as a collection of empires,
decisions, and actions that together are fast eliminating possibilities of
sustainable futures on a global scale. Crawford, a senior principal
researcher at Microsoft's FATE (Fairness, Accountability, Transparency, and
Ethics in AI) group, conceives of AI as a one-word encapsulation of
imperial design, akin to Calder Willingham's invocation of the word
“plastics” in his 1967 screenplay for *The Graduate* (*1*
<https://science.sciencemag.org/content/372/6539/246#ref-1>). AI, machine
learning, and other concepts are here understood as efforts, practices, and
embodied material manipulations of the levers of global power.

-- rec --

On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 9:40 AM uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ <gepropella at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well, Chiang was, I think, arguing that there's a reductionism lurking in
> the asymmetric *use* of technology. Exploitation of resources by
> capitalists is just one form it can take. Reducing progressive ephemerides
> to the influence of superheroes or conspiracy theories is another one.
> Roko's Basilisk is yet another one.
>
> To gloss all that into an equivalence class of arbitrarily swappable
> buzzwords or over-specific irony about the misunderstanding of socialism is
> a mistake. Eschatological thinking might not rise to being a first order
> trait ... a crisp category of people. But it's a persistent and prominent
> pattern.
>
> I really enjoy optimistic narratives like Pieter's. But I can also
> appreciate tragic narratives like Merle's. Eric's (and Chiang's) broach of
> the emergence of detailed and echatologically ambiguous story-telling out
> of the simpler types hits the right vein of ore. We're seeing more of these
> ambiguous stories lately ... in spite of the render-farm nonsense Jon
> laments.
>
> On 4/20/21 12:54 PM, David Eric Smith wrote:
> > Yeah.  I’m not sure what they’re afraid of, or even that they could
> articulate it.  (And I guess I mean this as a royal “they”.  Not some
> others, but a Weltanschauung that we can see rising, in which we are
> immersed)   You are certainly right that the words are just buzzwords,
> exchangeable at the drop of a hat.
> >
> > There is an expression “a full world” that I took up from its use by
> Herman Daly in papers like “Economics in a full world”, which argues that
> the problems that need solving are different when everything is occupied,
> than they were when everything was (for people) a frontier with no
> effective pushback against their expansion into it.  People’s anxiety and
> bad behavior is somehow reflective of an awareness that the world is full,
> and there might not be any room in it for them.
> >
> >
> >> On Apr 21, 2021, at 12:23 AM, Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> The hypothesis that the latent fear is of capitalism is amusing since
> the anti-vaxxers who are afraid of Bill Gates doing whatever he is intent
> on doing to them (what is it?) seem to be the same ones so terrified of
> socialism.
> >>
> >> Btw, someone finally approved by Clubhouse subscription, and so I
> turned it on.   Let's just say the "compelling app" is not full of
> compelling people.   It is one thing to know that these anti-vaxxer people
> exist, it is another thing to realize they have a place to talk, and do so.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of David Eric Smith
> >> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 10:23 PM
> >> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] water, again (was murder offsets)
> >>
> >> This was a nice read, Glen, thank you.
> >>
> >>> On Apr 20, 2021, at 12:11 AM, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ <gepropella at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I should have linked this:
> >>>
> >>> https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/30/podcasts/ezra-klein-podcast-ted-chi
> >>> ang-transcript.html
> >>>
> >>
> >> Several of Chiang’s observations have a ring of insight to me.
> >>
> >> On just one, for the accident that it overlaps with another factoid.
> His comment that superheroes:
> >> 1. Are magic == special
> >> 2. Preserve the status quo
> >>
> >> I think it was in Jane Smiley’s introduction to the volume of the
> Icelandic Sagas that she edited and compiled, that she says the Sagas are
> considered a premonition of the modern novel far ahead of its normal place
> in literature (the Quixote is I think usually credited as the first)
> because (for the Sagas), they realized that the old heroic tales of gods
> and trolls (e.g. the Eddas), didn’t have the depth to remain interesting
> under the retelling.  The Sagas brought the focus “down” to the real
> troubles and accommodations and inventions of real people, which were
> richer, more complex, and more satisfying over time than the old tropes.  I
> have come back to her comment many times, in thinking about what is the
> cultural role, whether of Eddas, epics like Ramayana and Mahabharata in
> India, Gilgamesh, etc.  I think for all of these, Chiang’s characterization
> works in both its dimensions, though perhaps in different degrees for
> different cases.
> >>
> >> So the political right in the US turn to an encompassing paranoia +/=
> cynicism and Qanon, and the movie industry (whoever that serves) is
> dominated by Marvel Comics franchises.  Having had the modern novel, we are
> throwing it away for not even epics, but dumb cartoons of epics, but
> keeping the magic and preservation of the status quo.  After all, the real
> heroics have supernatural up-enders as well as restorers (Loki or Enkidu),
> and in the more advanced versions (the Eddas) the trickster is not
> dominated or overcome, but a persistent force.  (c.f. also the Kosare in
> Tewa and Keres, and the mudheads in Hopi, in NM).
> >>
> >> There was another observation of a similar kind I recall, from perhaps
> two sources.
> >>
> >> Some historian came through SFI (for weeks or so), and gave a talk
> commenting on the iconography of scientists following the second world
> war.  The public wanted old-age Darwin, tired, patriarchal, apparently
> gentle (one never saw the picture of the young man starting out to find his
> way in the world, and the imperious, contemptuous Newton image was long
> gone), and old-age Einstein, again the tired benevolent grandfather.  From
> some other source, years earlier (I think coming from agriculture), there
> was the comment that sterility in the US came in the 1950s from the
> front-and-center nuclear terror.  Television was Ward Cleaver and Andy
> Griffith.  In the Cleaver home Ward wore a tie sitting in the living room
> chair in the evening.  In Mayberry there was nobody non-white to consider
> the circumstances of, and nothing seriously bad ever happened.  That was
> also when food in the grocery all went under plastic, and the ability to
> smell food walking into a store disappeared.
> >>
> >> So I guess we already know people admit they are scared, because that
> is commented on everywhere, but the reworking of their lives betrays a much
> more inclusive fear even than what they state.
> >>
> >>
> >> I did wonder, too, in reading the Klein transcript, whether Chiang’s
> brief characterization of the alchemists would be more congenial to DaveW’s
> use of the word, since he always makes it a point to reject the common
> reference as a misunderstanding.
> >>
> >> Eric
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> "It’s capitalism that wants to reduce costs and reduce costs by laying
> people off. It’s not that like all technology suddenly becomes benign in
> this world. But it’s like, in a world where we have really strong social
> safety nets, then you could maybe actually evaluate sort of the pros and
> cons of technology as a technology, as opposed to seeing it through how
> capitalism is going to use it against us. How are giant corporations going
> to use this to increase their profits at our expense?"
> >>>
> >>> On 4/19/21 8:01 AM, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ wrote:
> >>>> Ha! Sure. ... it still looks like SteveS called it with the Red
> Queen's Race. Even if such tech solves more problems than it creates, it'll
> still be distributed according to the power structures in place (e.g. rich
> people) when the tech's ready to scale.
> >>>>
> >>>> On 4/19/21 7:54 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> >>>>> Again technology to the rescue...   Nanotechnology for
> desalinization.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ???
> >>>>> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 7:45 AM
> >>>>> To: friam at redfish.com
> >>>>> Subject: [FRIAM] water, again (was murder offsets)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Copper? Natural gas? Pffft! Water's the interesting one.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2ftheconversation.
> >>>>> com%2finterstate-water-wars-are-heating-up-along-with-the-climate-15
> >>>>> 9092&c=E,1,Ewpqbk1K7YvvWaN9Wq82biEau11JE47_9tv9w77esjTa5t6HYRzAKlQ2w
> >>>>> -qi_xGNkEoqhkVKJuvI9hoKZ1q58ZXHgk_APFIJbNOqB5FmfTBe3-Djst8,&typo=1
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And another one:
> >>>>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.theolympian.
> >>>>> com%2fnews%2fbusiness%2farticle250595449.html&c=E,1,NvMnnmssGuhqpYLB
> >>>>> wvA3sYGLQlpI4LtssXofxpMUZv79UtcRK8Tqe9uBjxn8-AxuqoH2Ah-11_RcM_IlTW-T
> >>>>> GgAXXpjbp6RfGPzrix6us3-O6w6BrA,,&typo=1
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 4/15/21 7:59 AM, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ wrote:
> >>>>>> Another good example is water rights across states given
> >>>>>> watersheds, flood irrigation, etc.
> >>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.theguardia
> >>>>>> n.com%2fus-news%2f2021%2fapr%2f05%2farizona-water-one-per&c=E,1,CH_
> >>>>>> fKbSUirJq0d8JFH7BJbRnp3VoLW_l2ZsofeB8tXplQqNrJKiPCkdY2T3Ze0zf1SFcRC
> >>>>>> sXjtq_OHxVwg0cuwInTDLJULErLjTj6DMWH-ln0w,,&typo=1
> >>>>>> centers>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So, the question you're asking (how might "storage" in BTC be less
> preferable to other assets?) isn't really answerable *without* first
> discussing what that reservoir is *for*, what end does it serve?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ
> >>>
> >>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
> >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn
> >>> GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe
> >>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailm
> >>> an%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,do3tyOblMVu-0VNn8up6e0tWYpPJsK
> >>> J01Y2uM2wcYZS7DMtU0m0vkELMkKUtLJrDDd7q2acrwvVZGHMrtogU3JMZXny7J-cvYXl9
> >>> X-_Ud-to&typo=1 FRIAM-COMIC
> >>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspo
> >>> t.com%2f&c=E,1,-i9rXcjjcGiytY-YboFO-CMS8l1iPMlt0tujKFvQqLJMfeVdtcKpk7Y
> >>> v2pAru1X4-WJurnlE_Gjm-2VV7kch5yAw3dhwoHaaG7NQ0cytNmOyAnhh&typo=1
> >>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
>
> --
> ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ
>
> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20210421/ddb90406/attachment.html>