[FRIAM] The Hidden Spring: A Journey to the Source of Consciousness by Mark Solms

[Frank Wimberly]

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Frank

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Sat, Feb 6, 2021, 8:25 PM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Frank,
>
>
>
> OOOOOOOOOH.  I would like to see the argument that actors simulate
> emotions.  How do you imagine that argument goes?  Is that the difference
> between a Method actor and the other kind?
>
>
>
> Frank, while I am bothering you, it suddenly occurred to me that I might
> send and receive text messages on my computer, and when I looked into the
> matter, there were a half a dozen apps  that promised to do that.  I have a
> crappy little clamshell phone.  My need to send text messages is limited to
> exchanging messages with my  “picker” at whole foods.
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> Nick Thompson
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 6, 2021 8:36 PM
> *To:* Russ.Abbott at gmail.com; The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
> Group <friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] The Hidden Spring: A Journey to the Source of
> Consciousness by Mark Solms
>
>
>
> Back in the 80s Hans Moravec, author of "Mind Children:  The Future of
> AI",  and I used to argue constantly about the nature of consciousness.  I
> forwarded Russ' post to him after decades without our communicating.  Here
> is his reply in its entirety.
>
>
>
> "Hi Frank,
>
>
>
> Surely the position that emotions arise in the cortex is a straw man, I
> don't
>
> know anyone who argues that.  Reasoning rationalizes the drives, doesn't
>
> cause them.
>
> That doesn't mean a reasoning AI can't someday simulate emotions, like
>
> an actor or author.
>
>
>
> Hans
>
>
>
>
>
> We worked in the Robotics Institute.  Neither of us wastes words
> apparently.
>
>
>
> Frank
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 6, 2021, 6:17 PM Russ Abbott <russ.abbott at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> About to be published.
>
>
>
> From a review
> <https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/feb/05/the-hidden-spring-by-mark-solms-review-the-riddle-of-consciousness-solved>
> by Oliver Burkeman:
>
>
>
> Burkeman: Using poignant case studies of neurology patients – including
> children born with brain damage, yet plainly still capable of sadness and
> joy – [Solms] argues persuasively that consciousness ultimately arises not
> in the cortex, the seat of advanced intelligence, but in the more primitive
> brainstem, where basic emotions begin.
>
>
>
> Russ: In other words, consciousness exists far down the tree of life.
>
>
>
> Burkeman: To the best of my understanding, the gist [of the book] is that
> feelings are a uniquely effective and efficient way for humans to monitor
> their countless changing biological needs, in extremely unpredictable
> environments, to set priorities for action and make the best choices so as
> to remain within various bounds – of hunger, cold and heat, physical
> danger, social isolation, etc – outside of which we can’t survive for long.
> Doing all that without feelings, and doing it as rapidly as survival
> requires, would take so many computational resources that it would lead to
> a “combinatorial explosion”, demanding levels of energy a human could never
> muster.
>
>
>
> Here's Nick Lane's blurb on Amazon
> <https://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Spring-Journey-Source-Consciousness/dp/0393542017/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8>:
> (If you know Nick Lane, you know he is worth listening to.)
>
>
>
> "At last the emperor has found some clothes! For decades, consciousness
> has been perceived as an epiphenomenon, little more than an illusion that
> can't really make things happen. Solms takes a thrilling new approach to
> the problem, grounded in modern neurobiology but finding meaning in older
> ideas going back to Freud. This is an exciting book."
> ― *Nick Lane, author of The Vital Question*
>
>
>
>
> -- Russ Abbott
> Professor, Computer Science
> California State University, Los Angeles
>
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