[FRIAM] PM-2017-MethodologicalBehaviorismCausalChainsandCausalForks(1).pdf

Wed Feb 10 14:38:25 EST 2021

I was warning you not to bring up spark plugs and other BS that made the
example lack causal sufficiency thereby muddying the water unhelpfully.  I
guess the warning was too vague.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 12:34 PM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:

> So the presence and absence of spark Plugs screens off cart Starting from
> the Gas tank and the Battery charge.  To put in terms of ANOVA, there is no
> additivity of variance in the effects of G, B, and P upon S.  One could, of
> course, achieve additivity by partitioning the variance into the various
> interactions in G, B, and P’s effects upon (Pr S).  Or is the analogy
> between ANOVA and Currying completely without merit.
>
>
>
> This only demonstrates further that FRIWWMFTT.
>
>
>
> N
>
>
>
> Nick Thompson
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 10, 2021 1:15 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM]
> PM-2017-MethodologicalBehaviorismCausalChainsandCausalForks(1).pdf
>
>
>
> Nick,
>
>
>
> Somehow I don't relate to the sandwich case.  Is having ham and having
> eggs different from having ham and eggs.
>
>
>
> Your second question may be related to the following:  if A and B are both
> causes of C then A and B are not independent given C.  Let C be "car
> starts", A be "gas in tank" and B be "battery charged".  If you know
> there's gas in the tank and you observe that the car starts then you infer
> whether the battery is charged.  There are numerous ways to object to this
> which are irrelevant.  "What if the spark  plugs are missing?"  Etc.
>
>
>
> Frank
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 11:50 AM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Glen,
>
> You consistently give me thoughts to chew on.  Your introduction of "point
> of view' into the conversation is a "New Thought" for me, and I am grateful
> for it.  In particular, it makes apt the metaphor of screening off.  So,
> let it be the case that a third variable, C, also affects B.  In that case,
> one could not make predictions about  B to A without knowing about C.
> Thus, C screens off A from B.  I think I get it.
>
> Nick
>
> Nick Thompson
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ???
> Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2021 12:00 PM
> To: friam at redfish.com
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM]
> PM-2017-MethodologicalBehaviorismCausalChainsandCausalForks(1).pdf
>
> I think I have useful things to say about it. But who knows for sure?
>
> I regard this sort of screen as if *from* the present looking into the
> past. From the perspective of the 3rd node, can you *see* the 1st node? Or
> can you only see the 2nd node? (I think I alluded to this in my post about
> Barbour's "Janus Point".)
>
> As to the meshed gears, as usual, it's useful to crack cause into multiple
> meanings like agency vs material, formal, and final. But you can also adopt
> a perspective. From the 2nd gear's perspective, the 1st gear is causing it
> to move. From the 1st gear's perspective, you are causing it to move. And
> from a multi-gear perspective, either you *or* the designer is causing the
> 2nd gear to move. Scoping, scoping, scoping, scoping.
>
>
> On 2/10/21 9:06 AM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com wrote:
> > Hi, All,
> >
> >
> >
> > If any of you had any spare brain time, I am interested in  the attached
> VERY SHORT <
> https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:a6e9c10b-06dc-4ea1-8ffa-d450df62489a>
> article:
> >
> >
> >
> > I am struggling here with the idea of "screening off".  Does it mean
> more or less than the following:  Granted that, If I had ham, and I had
> eggs, I would have ham and eggs, having eggs screens off having ham from
> having ham and eggs?   Screening off seems a very odd metaphor.  Is it a
> term of art in logic?
> >
> >
> >
> > Also, a general problem I have with causality:  My understanding of
> causality is that event A can cause event B  if and only if A is
> independently known from B (an event cannot cause itself) AND occurs prior
> to B  Now imagine  two perfectly meshed gears, such that motion in one is
> instantly conveyed to the other.  I turn gear A and gear B turns.  Has the
> motion in A /caused/ the turning of B or has my turning of A caused the
> motion of B?  With the gears, this may just seem like a fussy “in the
> limit” sort of question, but there seem to be other phenomena where it’s
> worth asking.  Does the discharge of potential along the ionized (?) path
> CAUSE the lightning?
> >
> >
> >
> > I realize that the rest of you have spouses, dogs, cats, hobbies, and
> day jobs, but any off hand thoughts you have on these matters would be
> greatly appreciated.
>
> --
> ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ
>
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