[FRIAM] coding versus music

[Tom Johnson]

Duly noted.

On Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 5:22 PM Edward Angel <angel at cs.unm.edu> wrote:

> The term “computational thinking” incorporates all the points you brought
> up.
>
> Ed
> _______________________
>
> Ed Angel
>
> Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory
> (ARTS Lab)
> Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico
>
> 1017 Sierra Pinon
> Santa Fe, NM 87501
> 505-984-0136 (home)   angel at cs.unm.edu
> 505-453-4944 (cell)  http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel
>
> On Jan 29, 2021, at 3:49 PM, Tom Johnson <tom at jtjohnson.com> wrote:
>
> And I would gently suggest (not argue) that before ""algorithmic thinking"
> we should teach systems thinking/analysis: what will be the system in
> question and its defined boundaries, what the variables/agents within the
> system, the input/output relationships between those variables under what
> context/conditions, how do we measure change in the system and is the
> system capable of "learning," i.e. adapting to internal and external
> changes in its environment.
>
> With these steps we can start to discuss algorithms.  So there!  Harump!
> TJ
>
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>
> On Fri, Jan 29, 2021 at 3:00 PM George Duncan <gtduncan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I certainly agree with Ed. Coding does indeed suggest the final stage for
>> a particular language--should that colon instead be on a semi-colon. I
>> would, though, argue for  "algorithmic thinking" rather than "computational
>> thinking".
>>
>> George Duncan
>> Emeritus Professor of Statistics, Carnegie Mellon University
>> georgeduncanart.com
>> See posts on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram
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>>
>> My art theme: Dynamic exposition of the tension between matrix order and
>> luminous chaos.
>>
>> "Attempt what is not certain. Certainty may or may not come later. It may
>> then be a valuable delusion."
>> From "Notes to myself on beginning a painting" by Richard Diebenkorn.
>>
>> "It's that knife-edge of uncertainty where we come alive to our truest
>> power." Joanna Macy.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 2:53 PM Edward Angel <angel at cs.unm.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Going back to Dave’s original post, to me a big part of the issue is
>>> what is meant by “coding.” Unfortunately for manys in CS education, coding
>>> has come to refer only to the very last step in a complex process; namely,
>>> converting a final detailed set of instructions into computer code for a
>>> particular computer language. This is especially true of what as happened
>>> in the schools with programs that claim to teach coding and STEM. It’s why
>>> many of us prefer to use the term “computational thinking” when dealing
>>> with CS education.
>>>
>>> If coding is just the final step (which could be replaced by a machine,
>>> if not now but soon) then it would be orthogonal to all these other skills.
>>>
>>> Ed
>>> _______________________
>>>
>>> Ed Angel
>>>
>>> Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory
>>> (ARTS Lab)
>>> Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico
>>>
>>> 1017 Sierra Pinon
>>> Santa Fe, NM 87501
>>> 505-984-0136 (home)   angel at cs.unm.edu
>>> 505-453-4944 (cell)  http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel
>>>
>>> On Jan 27, 2021, at 10:41 AM, Prof David West <profwest at fastmail.fm>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> For a while now there has been a huge push to teach kids how to code.
>>> Ostensibly because it enhances skills like language, logic, and math; plus,
>>> "computer literacy" is essential in a world filled with computers.
>>>
>>> A study at MIT suggests that coding skill is orthogonal to reading skill
>>> and has little, if any, influence on development of logic/math skills.
>>>
>>> An article in the Journal of Neuroscience argues that if you want to
>>> increase the "skills and brainpower" of kids you should teach them music.
>>>
>>> I came across this information peripherally and have not read the
>>> specific research reported on. I *want* the reports to be accurate
>>> representation of the research because it confirms long held biases against
>>> the value of "computational thinking" and computer science as a fundamental
>>> knowledge domain.
>>>
>>> dave west
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