[FRIAM] What is Wealth for?

[Marcus Daniels]

I was speaking of San Francisco, where homeless people are known to #2 on sidewalks, between cars, etc.
If actually providing low cost housing isn’t feasible, it ought to be possible to fix the obnoxious but obvious outcome of people not having a way to go to the bathroom.   That problem impacts everyone.   (In fairness the city has made progress.)
My sense is that once people are completely humiliated, they just stop keeping up appearances.

Public libraries are one way the problem is addressed.  They have bathrooms and shelter.   Even Santa Fe’s main public library is repellant enough that I wouldn’t want to hang out there.  For bathrooms, the homeless use the public gyms.

There was the N.Y. / Giuliani approach of actually putting homeless people on buses upstate or even sending them out of the country.    Like electronic waste barges headed for China.   Is that who we are?

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of Robert J. Cordingley
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2021 1:06 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>; Gillian Densmore <gil.densmore at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] What is Wealth for?


All

This is going off topic in a hurry. Sure no public bathrooms in Santa Fe has been a problem for years. Should the city use its wealth, if it has any to spare, to build some? Are we saying in principle wealth should be used to help the disadvantaged (small bladders)? Isn't the problem, what system of wealth distribution should we adopt as a society in an effort to make us 'civilized'. Do we want to be more civilized - whatever that means?

Robert C

PS Let's not get into a discussion of the differences between bathrooms, restrooms, toilets, lavatories, WCs, bogs, outhouses, pit-stops, the gents, the ladies, powder rooms, etc.) R
On 3/15/21 1:12 PM, Gillian Densmore wrote:
:( yeah. Exactly. In that specific example. Maan I can't count the number of times when I was still in hiking shape, doing short hikes, or walking to downtown, how often  in summers after drinking water along the way. I'd need to find a bathroom.Elderly, Kids, hell just about anyone with blader or just wanting to freshen up some. But as much as at confuses me. Like you say, society has some issues.

On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 12:56 PM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com<mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
People here complain about homeless people relieving themselves in the streets.   The solution seems so simple, especially in the city:  Builds more public bathrooms.   Duh.   One small example of how unreasonably ruthless our society has become.

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com<mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> On Behalf Of Gillian Densmore
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2021 11:09 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com<mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] What is Wealth for?

Marcus. what a load. Let me tell you something.  I am bairly scraping by. it's only because of luck I am not on the streets or someones home. people that are retired and working, arguably, that's theft. people that still have to pay off a morgage, or rent or what ever else to actually F'n live. Do have to have money. just the reality of things.  Liking other stuff? yeah that's great.  But until such time as we get our collective heads of our asses and admit that burn and churn boomer level stuff of making your work your life, when now: anyone under 80 or 60 actually enjoy or want to make work their life? me either. I for one need work, so as that I for one can actually live and afford things. Its great people on this list take forgranted how god awful it is to choose between a full tank of gas and healthy eating or going out with a cute babe. I have to make that choice. It fucking sucks, it reely does. I have been hit with age-ism.  Sexism, yeah, turns out a lot of places won't hire men, because they think cute girls  being the face of a company meens more horny ass teens or what ever their marketing dweebs have gaslighted them into thinking. That meens they will get more people to squander money on stuff.
Sorry/not sorry. Just about every place, every article ever. says that the true cost of living most places in the use has vastly outpaced what anyone makes.
SantaFe anyone actually live here long? nope. Why: the cost of fucking living! People pile ontop of eachother, heart rending stories of people having to work 3 and 4 fucking jobs even at above slave-wage levels at underemployment. Cost of living is the corossive beating vile toxic slime at the top 10 problems.
Great that people are independently wealthy, can afford 99 cars, turn around and whine about how they don't autodrive, or what ever. I think that is fantastic! for the rest of us: I have aghettotastic jellopy. It's white anyone here seen me at wedteck? see that old ass car. yeah I have to keep it working for a while despite it's mechanicle quirks.
Greed and Malice is another side to wealth. Anyone think it's especially great we worship the wanker dweebs called CEO's wo are making 200% proffifts while an estimated 70% of americans up to 2019  were underemployed? me either.
All that is also directly tied to cost of living. I am seriusly looking to move because my 36 month long plan: get a job, get health. and with any luck meet someone very very amazing. I want her to never wory about anything I'd  be a stay at home father. At least that's ideal dream! lol. Either way when that warm kind amazing special person wants to be in my life. what do you think will be in the top 10 or even 15 things to come up a lot: how do afford X, who do we talk to about y how do invest in AwesomeCompany to have a bad ass investment portfolio?
All that, to deel with the pure stupidity of cost of living. Well that and it's just a good idea to have solid investments.
Part of the costs of living is hitting americans for no good reason now to. Inusrance. why do not have a NHS like, um bassicly every other country? I don't know. but. after you get laid off because of a virus. No insurance and that's a stupidly high cost. that adds to the costs of living.


On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 11:50 AM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com<mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
I don’t find the cost of living argument so convincing.   If one can accumulate wealth and retire or work remotely, it is possible to get the benefits of a low cost of living while still having a high income.   However, what’s unsaid, is that people do value other things, like being in the vicinity of their friends and family.    Also in the U.S., especially, what we value is a political football.   If half a million people die of COVID-19, that can be defined away in the name of jobs.   Or the economy can be equated with the markets, etc.   How much terror and suffering is enough to make one doubt ones definition of wealth?

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com<mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> On Behalf Of Robert J. Cordingley
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2021 6:44 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com<mailto:friam at redfish.com>>; Merle Lefkoff <merlelefkoff at gmail.com<mailto:merlelefkoff at gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] What is Wealth for?


Steve

If you are taking a poll...

For starters on what wealth might mean economically, it might be useful to understand the cost of living and purchasing power by country<https://www.worlddata.info/cost-of-living.php>.  Is 'wealthy' some factor based on a ratio of income over cost of living?

I don't know how you would measure cultural wealth and how colonialism played a part in its accumulation via subjugation. There must be other categories of wealth; spiritual wealth, artistic wealth, land ownership, public wealth, private wealth, etc.. How would native Americans and other indigenous population discuss the concept?

At the excessive levels of the ultra-rich (Besos and co), wealth is for giving away for perhaps some altruistic purpose. Cynically, some might see this as a way for making amends for all the transgressions committed on the way?

More commonly wealth is accumulated to help the next generation in one's family regardless of culture and purchasing power?

Robert C.
On 3/12/21 7:24 PM, Merle Lefkoff wrote:
Can we please start with how we define "wealth."  Please.

On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 12:31 PM Steve Smith <sasmyth at swcp.com<mailto:sasmyth at swcp.com>> wrote:
Tangenting off of the Great Man discussion, I would like to solicit a
discussion on  "What is Wealth for".  I believe we have attended to this
on the side many times (I remember a vFriam where it was declared that
"Billionaires are Assholes, but Millionaires aren't (necessarily)"?

Each of our Great (Wo)Men on the snark/not-snark list share one thing in
common, Wealth.   I'd be interested to hear others riff a little more on
their taxonomies of "what is Wealth for?"

- Steve


- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam<http://bit.ly/virtualfriam>
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/


--
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org<http://emergentdiplomacy.org>
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

mobile:  (303) 859-5609
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2
twitter: @merle110



- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv

Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam<http://bit.ly/virtualfriam>

un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/

archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/

--

Cirrillian

Web Design & Development

Santa Fe, NM

http://cirrillian.com

281-989-6272 (cell)
- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam<http://bit.ly/virtualfriam>
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam<http://bit.ly/virtualfriam>
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/



- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv

Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam

un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/

archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/

--

Cirrillian

Web Design & Development

Santa Fe, NM

http://cirrillian.com

281-989-6272 (cell)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20210315/321059f6/attachment.html>