[FRIAM] Morphogenisis

Sun May 9 00:17:55 EDT 2021

One possible answer is this.  Gravity is curved space, not a metaphor.  The
scene i mentioned was a description of an accelerating object in a very
limited space and time region.  It did not mention gravity.

The acceleration of a falling object near the earth increases as it gets
closer.   Etc, etc.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Sat, May 8, 2021, 10:03 PM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:

> EricS,
>
>
>
> I hope I am not the metaphor Nazi; I certainly don’t want to be him.   I
> certainly don’t want to execute anybody for using metaphors.  On the
> contrary.  Rather my point is that they are essential to good thought and
> that many scientists who voice contempt for metaphors use them regularly
> all the time in ways that are essential to their work.  The Pragmatic value
> of recognizing that we are using metaphors is that such a recognition leads
> to a discussion of whether we are using them well.  All metaphors, be it
> good ones or bad ones, import “surplus meaning” into the terms of use, and
> this surplus meaning can affect scientific thinking for good or ill
> depending on whether we acknowledge it and systematically explore its
> implications.  Surplus meaning is often the wet edge of discovery but some
> times the hidden assumption that keeps us from seeing the plain facts
> before us.  The clearest example of this is the metaphor of natural
> selection in which Darwin imagined that nature is like a giant pigeon
> coop.  This metaphor contain contains an infinity of useful implications
> and a few that are down right poisonous.  It’s important to know which are
> which.   I think Frank’s example of gravity is perhaps another great
> example.  Isn’t it one of Einstein’s greatest insights that the metaphor of
> attraction implicit in “gravity”, which arose from experiments with
> primitive magnets in Newton’s time,  is not as useful in many instances as
> the metaphor that massive objects warp the space around them. So, one of
> Einstein’s great contributions to physics is that he introduced a new
> metaphor?  Do I have that wrong?
>
>
>
> Do regard your affection for poetry as a sinful indulgence or do you
> regard it (as I would) as an essential feature of your scientific
> imagination.
>
>
>
> I don’t know why it is that moving house seems to free me up to think
> about everything but moving house.  One is not allowed parting shots in
> parliamentary debate, and I probably shouldn’t be taking them here.
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Nick Thompson
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *David Eric Smith
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 8, 2021 9:13 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Morphogenisis
>
>
>
> English has two categories of verbs: intransitive and transitive.
>
>
>
> If you use an intransitive verb — “yet it moves” — the Metaphor Nazi will
> catch you coming: claiming you are representing volition.
>
>
>
> If you use a transitive verb — “it is moved by gravity” — the Metaphor
> Nazi will catch you going: claiming an agent/patient relation, where the
> agent is probably (metaphorically) God (!), or whatever God is a metaphor
> for.
>
>
>
> And we have from Ecclesiastes (the verse in praise of the Metaphor Nazi):
>
>
> http://www.shakespeare-online.com/sonnets/59.html#:~:text=If%20there%20be%20nothing%20new%20(1)%3A%20Compare%20Ecclesiastes%201.9,new%20thing%20under%20the%20sun.%22
> <http://www.shakespeare-online.com/sonnets/59.html#:~:text=If%20there%20be%20nothing%20new%20(1):%20Compare%20Ecclesiastes%201.9,new%20thing%20under%20the%20sun.%22>
>
> Ecclesiastes 1.9: "The thing that hath been is that which shall be; and
> that which hath been done is that which shall be done; and there is no new
> thing under the sun."
>
>
>
> To which the scientist (note small “s”) would like to assert “the language
> of mechanics is not English; speaking it is a new practice available to
> people to participate in”.
>
>
>
> But let Shakespeare have the last word:
>
>
>
> If there be nothing new, but that which is
> Hath been before, how are our brains beguil'd,
> Which, labouring for invention, bear amiss
> The second burthen of a former child!
> O, that record could with a backward look,
> Even of five hundred courses of the sun,
> Show me your image in some antique book,
> Since mind at first in character was done!
> That I might see what the old world could say
> To this composed wonder of your frame;
> Whether we are mended, or whe'r better they,
> Or whether revolution be the same.
> O! sure I am, the wits of former days
> To subjects worse have given admiring praise.
>
>
>
> Eric
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 9, 2021, at 11:36 AM, Prof David West <profwest at fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
>
>
> The ball accelerated is clearly a metaphor as it implies that the ball is
> doing a specific thing, that the ball has behavior and probably volition.
> This is clearly not what you literally mean.
>
>
>
> davew
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 8, 2021, at 4:57 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
>
> "The ball accelerated at  approximately 32 feet per second squared at sea
> level in a vacuum."
>
>
>
> doesn't seem to be a metaphor to me.
>
>
>
> ---
>
> Frank C. Wimberly
>
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
>
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
>
>
> 505 670-9918
>
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 8, 2021, 3:07 PM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Listen, Fella!
>
>
>
> It’s metaphors all the way down!
>
>
>
> [shoe thrown]
>
>
>
> n
>
>
>
> Nick Thompson
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwordpress.clarku.edu%2fnthompson%2f&c=E,1,76cwsDofsJZfToBxaQU6zR5cllp_k59wtln_iQtSrD8ozjyEN9kt0FPUs4RnuGnWMKFW-nOw3wJjMgAgCJAkSTlh3C3YKbI75yNyUMUvvw,,&typo=1>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Gary Schiltz
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 8, 2021 1:36 PM
>
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Morphogenisis
>
>
>
>
>
> First of all, it's just a metaphor (ducking, the shoe barely missing my
> head) :-)
>
>
>
> Second of all, that description of animal development sure sounds to me
> like "following a script".
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 2:23 PM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This struck me:
>
>
>
> When animals develop, they don’t follow a script. Instead, responding to
> their environment, the cells negotiate and feel their way toward a final
> form. A fertilized egg divides, and divides again, creating a hollow ball
> of cells called a blastula; genes instruct these cells to release
> chemicals, and other cells, reacting to those chemical concentrations,
> decide to migrate elsewhere or to develop into specific types of tissue.
> Other influences—oxygen, nutrients, hormones, sometimes toxins—further
> shape gestation.
> https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/05/10/persuading-the-body-to-regenerate-its-limbs?utm_source=nl&utm_brand=tny&utm_mailing=TNY_Daily_050821&utm_campaign=aud-dev&utm_medium=email&bxid=5bd678d924c17c104801f684&cndid=40835928&hasha=1dc6f15a30be2d4712fae5f0e5a9a679&hashb=5e4befc88214fadc869224d7cb34d55f51451bc7&hashc=0c6ef6b7bc8221288e1f4a4ca0116d78a21ebdbe47949488640c7c54c93120fb&esrc=AUTO_PRINT&utm_term=TNY_Daily
>
>
>
> First, note the reliance on psychological terms.  This is the sort of
> passage that would stimulate my teasing Hywel with, “So you see, Hywel,
> psychology really IS the mother of all sciences.”  And don’t any of you
> DARE to come back at me with, “It’s just a metaphor.”
>
>
>
> Second, which of these two models encapsulates more closely what you
> wizards mean by computation.  Is carrying out an algorithm  more like
> “computation” or is “building a limb”? Is a salamander’s limb “computed”?
> If so, who computes it, or is that a violation of the language of
> computation.   I know.  Fools rush in where wise men fear to tread.
>
>
>
> Your loyal fool,
>
>
>
> Nic
>
> Nick Thompson
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
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