[FRIAM] The epiphenomenality relation

[Marcus Daniels]

Glen had said something a while ago implying that (that trivial meaning for) loops were somehow more challenging for digital computers.    I didn’t get it.

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2021 5:15 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The epiphenomenality relation

Yes, for example.

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Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 6:06 PM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com<mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
I guess you mean A(t=0)->B(t=1), B(t=1)->A(t=2), not B(t=1)->A(t=0)
From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com<mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2021 3:46 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com<mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The epiphenomenality relation

I did a number of experiments in the use of causal learning methods to infer genetic regulatory networks using actual and simulated data.  Those networks have loops of a variety of lengths.  References available upon request.

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Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 4:41 PM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com<mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
I just don't see how that is a "loop" except that repeated application of such a matrix could lead to oscillation.    It sounded like somehow causality was violated and not just obscured.

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com<mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> On Behalf Of ? glen
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2021 3:38 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com<mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The epiphenomenality relation

Right, high dimension. More important than the matrix being large is that it has non-zero cross terms.

On November 28, 2021 8:42:37 AM PST, Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com<mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
>The operators are large (in the sense of a matrix) whether or not they are intended to be?
>
>> On Nov 28, 2021, at 6:20 AM, ⛧ glen <gepropella at gmail.com<mailto:gepropella at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Any of the evolutionary operators across scales, from energy exchange at the finest to ecosystem reengineering at the coarsest.
>>
>>> On November 27, 2021 7:33:15 AM PST, Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com<mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
>>> I’ve heard these words from you Glen, but I have no idea what these loops are or what you might be talking about.
>>>
--
glen ⛧


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