[FRIAM] The epiphenomenality relation

[Stephen Guerin]

Nick,

FWIW, here's a thread from 16 years ago:
  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/miffed-td520563.html#a520571

And Eric Smith's response the same week under "Hurricanes and Engines"
  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/Hurricanes-and-engines-td520579.html

*If we accept a hurricane as a type of thermodynamic engine, can you accept
that the engine is in the category of Natural Design?*

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On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 2:08 PM Stephen Guerin <stephen.guerin at simtable.com>
wrote:

>
> Nick,
>
> Whenever we discussed your Natural Design Perspective over the last 15
> years, I've tried to form a bridge toward Complexity, Self-Organization,
> Least Action, and related ideas. From your Natural Design Wikipedia entry
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_design>:
>
> Natural design is design-without-a-designer, in the same sense that
> natural selection is selection-without-a-selector. Design is a term we use
> to refer to a matching of form and function, and we can recognize the
> presence of design independently of the cause of that design
>
>
> *Can we say a hurricane is a naturally designed form that matches the
> function of dissipating a temperature gradient?* In this case mass
> density and angular momentum break symmetry and become structured as a
> "design".  As you know, I've asked this question countless times, but can't
> recall your answer. I am trying to open the door to design that doesn't
> presuppose natural and sexual selection as the assumed mechanism of
> biological design.
>
> On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 11:39 PM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I have been wondering all week why none of you have sent me insults about
>> the text below.  It appears that ONE of the reasons may be that I never
>> sent it to you.  Well, now is your chance. From the natural design
>> perspective, design is a property of things, not of minds that make
>> things.  The perspective asserts that a thing is experienced as designed
>> when it is one of an array of things existing in an array of environments,
>> such that there is a systematic relation between things and environments.
>> Against the background  of such systematic relations, it becomes possible
>> to say that this particular thing is well-designed for this particular
>> environment.  Over the years, we have used many different examples to
>> illustrate this principle.
>>
>
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