[FRIAM] Heart Rate

[⛧ glen]

Ha! Nice redirect. Your mischarachterization was not about race. It'll be interesting if any in this office buys that. Your mischaracherization was about old people vs young or partially employed people.


On October 17, 2021 3:06:16 PM PDT, Frank Wimberly <wimberly3 at gmail.com> wrote:
>At the risk of appearing to promote my colleagues' work let me me clarify
>the "mischaracterization" about race.  As for old people, I'm an expert.
>The population from which our sample was drawn consisted of working class
>people in Pittsburgh.  Magee Women's Hospital was effectively on the campus
>of the University of Pittsburgh and is now a component of the University of
>Pittsburgh Medical Center which consists of 20+ hospitals in the Pittsburgh
>area.
>
>Very few blocks west and north of the campus is a large ghetto called The
>Hill District.  The residents of "The Hill" use Magee as their default
>obstetrics hospital.  There are also a large populations of Polish and
>other Eastern European descendants of steel workers who live in adjacent
>neighborhoods.  These people also heavily use Magee.  Many of our subject
>families were on public assistance and being woke wasn't a concept then.
>
>You can imagine that there were racial tensions it this area.
>
>Pittsburgh has changed considerably since the 70s.  Google, Facebook, and
>smaller tech companies have offices near the Pitt and CMU campuses and what
>were working class neighborhoods are rapidly being gentrified.  My eldest
>grandson was born at Magee in 1997.
>
>I hope that Jon, who partly grew up in Pittsburgh will clarify or correct
>my account.
>
>Frank
>
>---
>Frank C. Wimberly
>140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
>Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
>505 670-9918
>Santa Fe, NM
>
>On Sun, Oct 17, 2021, 3:36 PM ⛧ glen <gepropella at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Right. This is why Frank's mischaracterization fails so badly. Jon wasn't
>> targeting old people. He was challenging whatever default conception people
>> have about which groups are actually suffering/dying, much like the article
>> Barry posted.
>>
>> Bringing up the profiteering of Merck, Pfizer, and Moderna adds an
>> additional wrinkle. Of course they all recommend boosters, because they get
>> paid by the government when the government recommends their product.
>>
>> And that was the fulcrum of my redirect from Kim and Bruce's defenses of
>> the mandates, that the actual problem is neoliberal capitalism where its OK
>> to coerce people through wage slavery.
>>
>>
>> On October 17, 2021 9:13:22 AM PDT, Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com>
>> wrote:
>> >So mother nature offered a solution to kill off older people, and older
>> people declined to be killed off as reflected in their higher vaccination
>> rates.   Anti-vaxxers did not decline to be killed off.   In San Francisco,
>> a least, there are plenty of ICU beds for other people.  May nature take
>> its course.
>> >
>> >Meanwhile Merck has applied for approval of their anti-viral, and Pfizer
>> and Moderna have variant boosters in the works.    Everyone can have their
>> way here.
>> >
>> >Because my wife is immunosuppressed (or rather, will be soon), I have to
>> be careful about becoming a silent spreader with (most likely) just an
>> asymptomatic infection.   Chances are it would just help me diversify my
>> immunity given the baseline of two Pfzier vaccinations.  If it weren't for
>> that, I'd be out there doing my part to help everyone have the right
>> antibodies.  Just announce yourself so I can take off my mask.
>> >
>> >Marcus
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$
>> >Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2021 6:39 AM
>> >To: FriAM <friam at redfish.com>
>> >Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Heart Rate
>> >
>> >This is well argued, despite Frank's mischaracterization. We've had this
>> conversation a lot, including the discussion of seemingly cruel actuarial
>> dollar values of human lives:
>> >
>> >Risk-Aversion Sets Life Value
>> >https://www.overcomingbias.com/2020/06/the-value-of-life.html
>> >
>> >I often wonder if someone will eventually "cancel" me by weaponizing some
>> arbitrary thing I say or write the way Frank's weaponizing Jon's comment.
>> As we've discussed before, it can happen to anyone:
>> >
>> >The New Puritans
>> >
>> https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/10/new-puritans-mob-justice-canceled/619818/
>> >
>> >We'd all like to think we're better than the New Puritans. But to me,
>> it's simply more evidence this forum isn't appropriate for chat. Arguably,
>> the zoom meeting would be appropriate. But because some of us can't/won't
>> make the distinction, we end up in this awkward situation.
>> >
>> >My favorite recent example of a confused privied white dude
>> misunderstanding appropriate fora is Peter Singer:
>> >
>> >Faculty at Rhodes College Urge Cancellation of Online Talk by Peter
>> Singer (updated)
>> https://dailynous.com/2021/09/28/faculty-at-rhodes-college-urge-cancellation-of-online-talk-by-peter-singer/
>> >
>> >The whole situation is absurd. And if you don't appreciate the implicit
>> humor, you'll never grok the Zoomers:
>> >
>> >what makes gen z humor so interesting?
>> >https://youtu.be/a1LyTThf7V0
>> >
>> >On October 16, 2021 11:39:32 AM PDT, Jon Zingale <jonzingale at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>"""
>> >>
>> >>Also on Friday you said that you are happy when people my age die.  So
>> >>it doesn't matter to you that 95% of people who die are unvaccinated.
>> >>
>> >>"""
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Something similar to that, so thank you for this opportunity to
>> >>clarify. What are examples of goals that others not like yourself might
>> >>have? For one, they may not think that saving a few million lives is
>> >>worth preserving the status quo, the power structures that have the
>> >>world veering toward its death. I suggested (with tongue only partially
>> >>in cheek) that mother nature offered a solution for recalibrating the
>> >>power distribution and that we found a vaccination for it. Sure, hot
>> >>words, but not that much more triggering than the shit we usually say
>> >>in a Friam meeting. I hear ageist, racist and classist remarks nearly
>> >>every Friday, so shrug.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>For instance, you made it clear that everybody in Pittsburgh knows who
>> >>is black and who isn't. Another suggested that life was easier back
>> >>then. EricC slid one under your radar by asking if it was based on the
>> >>standard definition that of having 1/4 black heritage, to which you
>> >>thoughtlessly agreed. Nick or maybe someone else pointed out that the
>> >>studies did not hold up in Africa and that the correspondence was maybe
>> >>not the result of "race" (whatever that is) but relatively recent
>> >>cultural pressures (the descendants of those that did not die on a
>> >>difficult journey across the ocean and into slavery to serve your
>> >>ancestors[!]).
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>It is clear that continuing to push your personal work is your own
>> >>narcissism and not because it is relevant to anything (like your
>> >>anecdote about StuK and you bullying some researchers that actually did
>> >>work into adding you both onto their paper). What could it mean to be
>> >>relevant? I leave that to you as an exercise.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>All said, I care about you Frank, and I also must call a spade a spade
>> >>(that is a saying isn't it?) There is no reason for you to collect more
>> >>per month now than anytime in your working life when so many people
>> >>continue to work harder than you could have ever imagined for yourself,
>> >>often risking their lives so that some silver fox can demand a refund
>> >>for their steak being a little overcooked. I am not asking that you
>> >>give away your comfort, but to acknowledge and maybe even attempt to
>> >>set things right. Btw, I recognize and deeply respect the good things
>> >>you are doing for your grandchildren.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>What I am asking for is the vulnerability to hear that others may be
>> >>upset and their reasons worth feeling. Generationally speaking, I am a
>> >>genX-er and we are very clear that there were never enough of us to
>> >>matter and that the protests of our generation were quickly silenced by
>> >>a phony war on terror. There is no part of me that wishes for what you
>> >>boomers had (and squandered in your great numbers), but rather, I wish
>> >>to understand how to support the generations after mine that are left
>> >>with the legacy of boomer self-obsession. So, um... whatever dude.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>[!] But please, tell me again about your native american heritage.
>> >
-- 
glen ⛧