[FRIAM] gen'fur
Frank Wimberly
wimberly3 at gmail.com
Fri Sep 10 16:17:42 EDT 2021
😁
---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM
On Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 1:22 PM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com> wrote:
> I should have known to hide the drugs from the addicts.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$
> Sent: Friday, September 10, 2021 12:16 PM
> To: friam at redfish.com
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur
>
> It's your fault for focusing on reading ability instead of some less
> subjective trait. Had you focused on, say, tool use <
> https://ec.europa.eu/research-and-innovation/en/horizon-magazine/our-intelligent-ancestor-neanderthal>
> or somesuch, then we may not have gone there. ... Aaaaa, who am I kidding?
> We always go there.
>
> On 9/10/21 12:06 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> > How did we get started on consciousness again? The thread started with
> some snark about the power of GWAS associations..
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Frank
> > Wimberly
> > *Sent:* Friday, September 10, 2021 11:56 AM
> > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> > <friam at redfish.com>
> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur
> >
> >
> >
> > Wimberly's Conjecture: There is no correct, reductionist explanation of
> consciousness.
> >
> > ---
> > Frank C. Wimberly
> > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> > Santa Fe, NM 87505
> >
> > 505 670-9918
> > Santa Fe, NM
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 11:44 AM uǝlƃ ☤>$ <gepropella at gmail.com <mailto:
> gepropella at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > It's no more profound than any other multi-order composition. It's
> part of the work we have to do for mechanistic modeling of higher order
> constructs. What galls me is that we can talk about it so much without
> discussing the mechanisms of construction.
> >
> > The details of composing from genes, through physiological
> structures, through interoception, to very high order attributes like
> "reading ability" are interesting, regardless of any profundity. But some
> of us need to be reminded of how the details build the narrative. Like
> Magic Eye pictures, the Necker cube, or the lady/vase thing, what might
> seem banal without the larger frame can seem profound when the discourse is
> enlarged ... when it all snaps into place.
> >
> >
> > On 9/10/21 10:25 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> > > Fine, the goal is some composition of functions and it is all
> interdependent.
> > >
> > > Sure. Of course. Why is this so profound to y’all?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com <mailto:
> friam-bounces at redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of *thompnickson2 at gmail.com
> <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com>
> > > *Sent:* Friday, September 10, 2021 10:20 AM
> > > *To:* 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <
> friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
> > > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Which takes us back to thermostats, intentionality, intensional
> inexistence, Sober’s epiphomenator, spandrels, and Lorenz’s law: The goal
> is never the function. If you build a bird that measures competing male
> robins in terms of “brown stick with red fluff” you eventually get an
> ethologist who gets that bird to attack by providing only brown sticks with
> red fluff.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > See. It’s all connected.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Nick
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Nick Thompson
> > >
> > > ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com> <mailto:
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com>>
> > >
> > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ <
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> <
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ <
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/>>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com <mailto:
> friam-bounces at redfish.com> <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com <mailto:
> friam-bounces at redfish.com>>> *On Behalf Of *Steve Smith
> > > *Sent:* Friday, September 10, 2021 12:30 PM
> > > *To:* friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com> <mailto:
> friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
> > > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sometimes all you need is a good aphorism
> > >
> > > https://sketchplanations.com/goodharts-law <
> https://sketchplanations.com/goodharts-law> <
> https://sketchplanations.com/goodharts-law <
> https://sketchplanations.com/goodharts-law>>
> > >
> > > or maybe boost it up with a cartoon
> > >
> > > https://sketchplanations.com/ <https://sketchplanations.com/>
> <https://sketchplanations.com/ <https://sketchplanations.com/>>
> > >
> > > I can't help but wonder if there's an analog of Goodhart's law
> lurking, here.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On September 9, 2021 2:31:39 PM PDT, Marcus Daniels <
> marcus at snoutfarm.com <mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com>> <mailto:
> marcus at snoutfarm.com <mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > > Or they are reprogramming their people to be smarter!
> > >
> > > (Actually, deCODE is owned by Amgen now.)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Selection is already occurring, so it isn't as if this is
> some sci-fi thing.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/12/the-last-children-of-down-syndrome/616928/
> <
> https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/12/the-last-children-of-down-syndrome/616928/>
> <
> https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/12/the-last-children-of-down-syndrome/616928/
> <
> https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/12/the-last-children-of-down-syndrome/616928/
> >>
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > >
> > > From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com <mailto:
> friam-bounces at redfish.com>> <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com <mailto:
> friam-bounces at redfish.com>> On Behalf Of David Eric Smith
> > >
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 9, 2021 2:12 PM
> > >
> > > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>> <mailto:friam at redfish.com
> <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Aha! This is why Iceland has the highest per-capita
> fraction of published authors in the world. I had assumed it was the
> weather….
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sep 10, 2021, at 2:17 AM, Marcus Daniels <
> marcus at snoutfarm.com <mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com>> <mailto:
> marcus at snoutfarm.com <mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > That can be screened as well with a large
> population-wide survey such has been done in the UK or Iceland.
> > >
> > > Of course, it is unlikely that complex behaviors will
> be governed by isolated mutations, so the task is to look for highly
> predictive motifs (e.g. regular expressions).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > >
> > > From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com <mailto:
> friam-bounces at redfish.com>> <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com <mailto:
> friam-bounces at redfish.com>> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$
> > >
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 9, 2021 10:12 AM
> > >
> > > To: friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>
> <mailto:friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ha! Now you're trolling. The answer is: "because the
> sites that generate reading ability (or whatever) *also* generate other
> 'abilities'", with "abilities" in scare quotes because many abilities are
> considered bad ... like the ability of a pimply faced white dude to shoot
> up a church or blow up a federal building.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In addition to polyphenism, there's robustness. If
> more than 1 site generates the same functional ability (reading), then do
> we write them all? ... just one of them? ... a probabilistically predictive
> handful of them?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 9/9/21 10:00 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> > >
> > > So find the sites that correspond to reading
> ability, or whatever, and WRITE them.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > >
> > > From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com <mailto:
> friam-bounces at redfish.com>> <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com <mailto:
> friam-bounces at redfish.com>> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$
> > >
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 9, 2021 9:51 AM
> > >
> > > To: friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>
> <mailto:friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I was alerted to this article this morning:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Can Progressives Be Convinced That Genetics
> Matters?
> > >
> > >
> https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/09/13/can-progressives-be-con <
> https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/09/13/can-progressives-be-con> <
> https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/09/13/can-progressives-be-con <
> https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/09/13/can-progressives-be-con>>
> > >
> > > v
> > >
> > > inced-that-genetics-matters
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > It should delight those amongst us who rant about
> the "woke". 8^D But it dovetails nicely with the fraught concept of
> equality in the other thread.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Coincidentally, also on 9/6, the BIAPT announced
> their early career prize winner Emily McTernan:
> > >
> > >
> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.associationfo <
> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.associationfo> <
> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.associationfo <
> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.associationfo>>
> > >
> > > rpoliticalthought.ac.uk <
> http://rpoliticalthought.ac.uk
> >%2fbiapt-2021-early-care&c=E,1,Je9MVNdO8lpJQOd
> > >
> > >
> 6fZwUNe-4z5yuFq0upxNIzMBFjmLFh_h5a63ueVVpd8lkEdWeUx5Xx1RaoPg3T5Ph8YlG
> > >
> > > 0558qqHLZD8-DKeBPEC3YYM,&typo=1
> > >
> > > er-prize-winner-dr-emily-mcternan/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "In her forthcoming monograph, Dr McTernan
> develops her work on social equality further, to advance a pioneering
> conceptual account – and robust normative defence – of the phenomenon of
> ‘taking offence’. Therein, McTernan contends, we should understand taking
> offence, under appropriate conditions, as a civic virtue rather than a
> vice, as an emotion that embodies the resistance of social inequalities
> within a community."
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 9/8/21 8:06 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> > >
> > > From about a cancer rate of 10% (without
> mutation) to 50% (with) but it depends on the BRCA variant.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_ca <
> https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_ca> <
> https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_ca <
> https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_ca>>
> > >
> > > n
> > >
> > > c
> > >
> > > er.htm
> > >
> > > <
> https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_c <
> https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_c> <
> https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_cancer.htm
> <
> https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_cancer.htm
> >>
> > >
> > > a <
> https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_cancer.htm
> <
> https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_cancer.htm
> >>
> > >
> > > n <
> https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_cancer.htm
> <
> https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_cancer.htm
> >>
> > >
> > > cer.htm> <
> https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_cancer.htm
> <
> https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_cancer.htm
> >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sep 8, 2021, at 4:07 PM, Frank Wimberly
> <wimberly3 at gmail.com <mailto:wimberly3 at gmail.com>> <mailto:
> wimberly3 at gmail.com <mailto:wimberly3 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Is the Braca gene that little correlated
> with breast cancer?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---
> > >
> > > Frank C. Wimberly
> > >
> > > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> > >
> > > Santa Fe, NM 87505
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 505 670-9918
> > >
> > > Santa Fe, NM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Sep 8, 2021, 4:57 PM Marcus
> Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com <mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com> <mailto:
> marcus at snoutfarm.com <mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com>> <mailto:
> marcus at snoutfarm.com <mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com>> <mailto:
> marcus at snoutfarm.com <mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com>>> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yeah, it is hard to get excited about
> “unusual” variance. Modern
> > >
> > > classification algorithms like gradient
> boosting make it possible
> > >
> > > to predict phenotypes, and to me that is a
> lot more interesting
> > >
> > > (and still possible to deconstruct).____
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __ __
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *From:* Friam <
> friam-bounces at redfish.com <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com> <mailto:
> friam-bounces at redfish.com <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> <mailto:
> friam-bounces at redfish.com <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> <mailto:
> friam-bounces at redfish.com <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>>> *On Behalf
> Of *Eric Charles
> > >
> > > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 8, 2021
> 3:53 PM
> > >
> > > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied
> Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>
> <mailto:friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>> <mailto:
> friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>> <mailto:friam at redfish.com
> <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>>
> > >
> > > *Subject:* [FRIAM] gen'fur____
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __ __
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Gen'fur this, gen'fur that... and also
> the realities of biological complexity....
>
>
> --
> ☤>$ uǝlƃ
>
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