[FRIAM] Could this possibly be true?

Thu Sep 16 20:15:21 EDT 2021

I wonder if behaviorists feel the same.  They will observe their behavior
to learn how they feel.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 6:10 PM David Eric Smith <desmith at santafe.edu> wrote:

> Was it Joan Jett who penned the lyrics “I don’t give a damn about being
> out of favor"
>
> On Sep 17, 2021, at 8:08 AM, Frank Wimberly <wimberly3 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I should have said "out of favor" instead of "bad reputation".
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 3:50 PM Frank Wimberly <wimberly3 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't think psychologists in general use language that way.
>> Behaviorists may.  When I was a graduate student in psychology 55 years ago
>> behaviorism had a bad reputation, at least at Carnegie Mellon but I suspect
>> at other places that emphasized theories of cognition.
>>
>> After a year I switched to the grad program in math because I couldn't
>> cope with the ambiguities.  I was young
>>
>> ---
>> Frank C. Wimberly
>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
>> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>>
>> 505 670-9918
>> Santa Fe, NM
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 3:32 PM David Eric Smith <desmith at santafe.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> This is where there is a style of use of language that may be unique to
>>> Nick among all humans, or may be a tribal custom among the psychologists,
>>> but which the common man needs to be aware exists, so that he knows that
>>> the way Nick/psychologists use words will be directly opposed to the way
>>> the common man has always used them.
>>>
>>> If that question disappears for you under those circumstances, then I
>>> can simply admit that a pleasure is just the behavioral transition that
>>> occurs upon the achievement of set of circumstances, and escape the
>>> tautology by defining  a goal as the organization of behavior that points
>>> to a set of circumstances.
>>>
>>>
>>> So, in archery, the way the archer points the bow (organization of
>>> behavior) is the “goal”, and the event of an arrow’s hitting a bullseye is
>>> somehow not a goal.  Nick didn’t happen to use the word “function” in the
>>> clip above; I have no idea what he would say a “function” is, but in the
>>> earlier posts, it was as bizarrely glossed to me as this glossing of goal,
>>> so I can’t even come up with a guess for how to imitate it.
>>>
>>> The plugging in of an address for the supermarket to the GPS while
>>> sitting in the car in the driveway (organization of behavior) is the goal,
>>> not the event of my arriving at the supermarket.
>>>
>>> For me as a mechanic, the bullseye as a position for arrows is the goal
>>> (applied to an object), or the event of the arrow’s arriving there is a
>>> goal (applied to an outcome of a behavior) that serves as a selection
>>> criterion among directions in which a bow might be pointed.  My pointing
>>> the bow one way versus another is to me a function for attaining that
>>> goal.  The event of arriving at a supermarket is the goal that serves as a
>>> criterion for selection of which GPS location I plug in; the act of
>>> plugging in that address is then a function for attaining that goal.
>>>
>>> I know that, in response to this, Nick will reply with a sequence of
>>> English-language words that I find even more unparseable than the ones
>>> above.
>>>
>>> The meditators do this too.  If I comment that, as a mechanic, I am
>>> interested in what would get people to be more restrained in the use of
>>> excesses of power when they find themselves in possession of such, to try
>>> to unwind the death spiral that is leading to the dissolution of the
>>> society, I know that the meditators will say “Poor child, lost in samsara,
>>> he doesn’t realize that all these things he refers to are just illusion.”
>>>  If I say to them that this is what I expect them to say, the meditators
>>> get annoyed at me because they think I am insulting them.  They say “when
>>> we say, over and over again, in the first pages of every piece of our
>>> literature, and again every three pages after that, that `all that is
>>> illusion’ “, we don’t mean that all that is illusion.  You strawman us.
>>> Seriously?
>>>
>>> I guess that’s how either discipline-specific or idiosyncratic speech
>>> habits work.  What is unexplainably self-evident to one person is
>>> mystifying to somebody else.
>>>
>>> Eric
>>>
>>>
>>> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- -
>>> .
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,gRN3Nm3PAYnsLtSOcbnoO9--B0l2dPustKvRs3L9QwBFoPYUkVIjwVuW1S6QjVOKPuPqpLcJRvqTI9_67moyra1PU1548tCK0bVHpXuAYQY_lQVy1U0,&typo=1>
>>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,fZy9kq5o2SiMY1zu6gle2t9hbETdnBOW3hLpzaGLNcO1ckg07j95x13tutRNf-DKWzHT7zf1mY4lMkLRhRzx_aYiFwPlNoroNyFr8MspAfRx6kbljtGmFpJ-&typo=1>
>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,j4La7SW0LgM5LOXqjylGNVuhk8tHLb5SyZ2bKXQrSsJ2FBiDSpQajeoYDa9Yn-LWrULylV1R-qkr_UtRX_Sgb8nQGmwc5hgnza7XIm0SmPYbTOP9ND34Vg,,&typo=1>
>>> archives:
>>>  5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,6BvVUEcCcqWIAdVFY4gr2T2mY9xKqLhtiPpKGdSVNzm-5-29TE2S43uWDgfx2B7bZNI9Nw9lmauSphx7vATy7Oj_fj3gQOj9p5QI7dldYnGZtAdCqBcuAzv1&typo=1>
>>>  1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>>
>>
> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
> un/subscribe
> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,dT3x79gzW79Q47bBpNjAdKUBjJZut1t-N3ba4I2L4k8bBruN92aOjZby_QboZ-Z8k1s4LYwy2-aS4yqVKK5jwPaTTtZvjubc-Sm0fUK6XyyhnIcWXGw,&typo=1
> FRIAM-COMIC
> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,xbzwCkPqGEF7oHVtgJ40Et7JVG_w_lMUi5iwlAQOq2Bira0rY4L7_WDeMJfrZkRbWg9hxlH79aFXxFA-IGwc9EctryCdrrVYS5On8bhxvEAyLAV2Hw,,&typo=1
> archives:
> 5/2017 thru present
> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,fjDvqh-D-oZ-TyEAvd7SU2IM7LzobBrjgZR-8u-fH-NZ6k7xtsIdrESAOx4R4--wRHYRh9wBCgajOcjcwSkMmM8_qew6gQjf1l8VQYtUr_N9SA,,&typo=1
> 1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>
>
>
> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives:
>  5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>  1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20210916/a074d843/attachment-0001.html>