[FRIAM] unplanned [sen|obsol]escence

Tue Sep 28 14:28:20 EDT 2021

Before the conversation goes much more off the rails from the OP. That
first of all how are you defining GenerationX? if you meen people born
about  1980-1990. Last I read that had gotten chunked into millennials or
something. So lets start with the basics. people now 35-40+ and drinking?
the data isn't entirely their. Last I read on that the amount of alcohol
being drunk has on average gone down about 15-20% . It's part of why
Budweiser, and Miller (for instance) are struggling to find a hook for
people to drink.  Part of why is being significantly more health conscious
then previous generations. And yeah money as well. My parents drink a lot
more than I do, and my grand parents drank even more yet.
That has been exchanged for a seriously unhealth apatite for energydrinks
though. Which causes all kinds of problems on its own.  That's entirely
because of the economic clusterfuck we've been settled with, the true
employment rate and a having to fucking struggle just to scrape by.
Energydrink and coffee consumption on average has nearly tripled. The
consquences include chronic fatiigue and serius, kidney and heart problems.
Covid isn't helping with that. Having to  have to maintain on average 2 or
even 3 jobs for a typical single person simply because minimum fucking
wage, and lot of people from another generation stuck in a past that never
even existed. Minumum wage at a whoping 10 or even a pathetic 8.50 an hour.
you guys have PHD's some even more than one. you can do the math. So
sufficed to say that their is a refresh of alcholics is far from
surprising. Maybe we can, oh, I don't know unfuck the economy and reduce
our di-stressers and absolute panic inducing stress and anxiety from about
99 thousand  god damn problems we, literaly, got born into. Not the least
of which are a god damn string of lunatic POTUS's and now one with an
entire leg into the grave from being as old or older than most of this
mailing list.

On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 3:45 PM uǝlƃ ☤>$ <gepropella at gmail.com> wrote:

> I still don't know how you bring "basis spaces" into the discussion. It
> seems a bit math-istic ("mathy")? However, if we argue directly about
> Hume's Law, that does seem a bit mathy. The essence is that, in axiomatic
> deduction, you can't validly derive sentences about values from sentences
> about the world. In rejecting Hume's Law, we could simply reject the idea
> that axiomatic deduction is faithful to real-world reasoning. (Perhaps part
> of why we need "natural deduction" with introduction and elimination rules?)
>
> But I wouldn't even go that mathy. We can allow Hume's Law to stand (and
> require values introduction) but still talk about the mechanisms by which
> values are lined up outside of inference. In other words, regardless of the
> logic, the way values are aligned is with shared behavior ... mimicry. The
> child learns to fear snakes because the mother fears snakes ⇒ shared value
> "you ought to be afraid of snakes". And that's regardless of whether snakes
> are dangerous or not, in keeping with Hume.
>
> The "antifa affiliated" person who shot Tiny and Reinoehl are/were
> (slightly?) misaligned with Antifa values. It wouldn't surprise me in the
> slightest if other "antifa affiliated" actually turned him in. Such actions
> produce an alignment of values. But the Proud Boys who assaulted Alissa
> were expressing values very well aligned with the rest of the Proud Boys.
> You can hear it in the clip:
> https://twitter.com/mxtaliajane/status/1434307985359114245 with "get
> her", "fucking bitch", maniacal laughter, and "fuck antifa".
>
> I could easily be wrong, of course. There's a strain of antifa who do
> intend to commit violence. But they aren't as prominent in the ranks of
> Antifa as those Proud Boys (like Tiny) who take pride in their commission
> of violence.
>
> On 9/25/21 11:10 AM, Steve Smith wrote:
> > I maybe understand Glen's use of several terms more better now.
> >
> > I heard "value alignment" to refer to the general alignment between
> > basis spaces of roughly self-aligned groups and other similar (but
> > different) groups.   I think I hear now that Glen was giving the PB
> > crowd credit for having a coherent presentation with others while acting
> > in public.   I don't know what their private discussions/meetings look
> > like, they may be near anarchy, but by the time they are on the street
> > the present as a coherent, disciplined group.
> >
> >
> >> Yes, this seems really important to me:
> >>
> >>> That "antifa affiliated" guy who shot Tiny is probably susceptible to
> peer pressure to *stop* carrying his gun to town, much like the Proud Boys
> coach their participants not to start fights and always cooperate with the
> cops. The more organized Antifa groups, like Rose City *do* coach their
> participants more than the less organized groups do. But the difference in
> both value alignment and tactics is obvious. If you're like my colleague,
> you'll claim this is a "distinction without a difference". But the
> difference is palpable if you're actually present.
> >> Living sometimes in Atlanta, where the past of a civil rights movement
> that was purpose-driven, sophisticated, strategic, and disciplined has been
> kept alive a bit more than other places, I watch historical footage from
> the 60s, of strings of people singing quietly and clapping in time various
> religious songs while being herded into police vans, and I am awestruck at
> the dignity and the self-control.  If the current movements could get to
> that, at the scale of the many-more people that they include today, we
> could solve a lot of these problems.
> >>
>
> --
> "Better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie."
> ☤>$ uǝlƃ
>
>
> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives:
>  5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>  1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20210928/eefd945f/attachment.html>