[FRIAM] unplanned [sen|obsol]escence

Tue Sep 28 15:12:41 EDT 2021

nailed it! 200% nailed it!, Yes yes yes the proud boys. I'd speculate that
they came about because people generally don't like to feel shoved around
and pushed aside and marginalised. Even if it's in their head.  Perception
does count for something.
I had totally forgotten about Gen Y  being in the mix  to be honest. Vaping
like you brought up has a lot of  problems. Not the least of which is
what's vaped may not be legal or safe.

On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 12:51 PM uǝlƃ ☤>$ <gepropella at gmail.com> wrote:

> I generally regard GenX as born within 1965-1980. But there's some flux,
> obviously. There's some confusion between the phrases "GenY" and
> "Millenials", I guess. But it seems safe to make them the same.
>
> I'm glad you brought up energy drinks and alternative drugs that I
> wouldn't have normally thought about. I'd guess vaping is similar. It
> dovetails nicely with both the anti-vax stuff and the supplement craze,
> including things like Soylent, lab-grown meat, etc.
>
> But it seems clear to me that, while it's easy to "other" AI and spend
> hours talking about "AI Alignment", we don't spend enough time "othering"
> groups like the Supreme Court. The kerfuffle about them being "partisan
> hacks" <
> https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-09-19/supreme-court-justices-amy-coney-barrett-politics>
> speaks directly to the work that's been done by moral philosophers (or
> moral psychologists if you buy the difference) for a very long time. It
> also speaks to the underlying claims of "predictive processing", simulation
> vs. emulation, explainable vs. interpretable AI, intra-species
> mind-reading, etc.
>
> The exploitation of our underclasses, including younger generations, by
> the normative establishment *is* a derivation of ought from is ... like
> justifying Fraternity hazing ... or Pinker's claim that incremental
> progress is reason for continuing with the status quo.
>
> How do we re-align the values of society so that they line up (not shared,
> but aligned) with Millenials and GenZ? My typical medium- to long-term
> answers are inadequate (e.g. ranked-choice voting, electoral college
> reform, universal healthcare, etc.) in the context of your immediate
> expressed needs. But what can we do? Now?
>
> On 9/28/21 11:28 AM, Gillian Densmore wrote:
> > Before the conversation goes much more off the rails from the OP. That
> first of all how are you defining GenerationX? if you meen people born
> about  1980-1990. Last I read that had gotten chunked into millennials or
> something. So lets start with the basics. people now 35-40+ and drinking?
> the data isn't entirely their. Last I read on that the amount of alcohol
> being drunk has on average gone down about 15-20% . It's part of why
> Budweiser, and Miller (for instance) are struggling to find a hook for
> people to drink.  Part of why is being significantly more health conscious
> then previous generations. And yeah money as well. My parents drink a lot
> more than I do, and my grand parents drank even more yet.
> > That has been exchanged for a seriously unhealth apatite for
> energydrinks though. Which causes all kinds of problems on its own.  That's
> entirely because of the economic clusterfuck we've been settled with, the
> true employment rate and a having to fucking struggle just to scrape by.
> Energydrink and coffee consumption on average has nearly tripled. The
> consquences include chronic fatiigue and serius, kidney and heart problems.
> Covid isn't helping with that. Having to  have to maintain on average 2 or
> even 3 jobs for a typical single person simply because minimum fucking
> wage, and lot of people from another generation stuck in a past that never
> even existed. Minumum wage at a whoping 10 or even a pathetic 8.50 an hour.
> you guys have PHD's some even more than one. you can do the math. So
> sufficed to say that their is a refresh of alcholics is far from
> surprising. Maybe we can, oh, I don't know unfuck the economy and reduce
> our di-stressers and absolute panic inducing stress and
> > anxiety from about 99 thousand  god damn problems we, literaly, got born
> into. Not the least of which are a god damn string of lunatic POTUS's and
> now one with an entire leg into the grave from being as old or older than
> most of this mailing list.
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 3:45 PM uǝlƃ ☤>$ <gepropella at gmail.com <mailto:
> gepropella at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     I still don't know how you bring "basis spaces" into the discussion.
> It seems a bit math-istic ("mathy")? However, if we argue directly about
> Hume's Law, that does seem a bit mathy. The essence is that, in axiomatic
> deduction, you can't validly derive sentences about values from sentences
> about the world. In rejecting Hume's Law, we could simply reject the idea
> that axiomatic deduction is faithful to real-world reasoning. (Perhaps part
> of why we need "natural deduction" with introduction and elimination rules?)
> >
> >     But I wouldn't even go that mathy. We can allow Hume's Law to stand
> (and require values introduction) but still talk about the mechanisms by
> which values are lined up outside of inference. In other words, regardless
> of the logic, the way values are aligned is with shared behavior ...
> mimicry. The child learns to fear snakes because the mother fears snakes ⇒
> shared value "you ought to be afraid of snakes". And that's regardless of
> whether snakes are dangerous or not, in keeping with Hume.
> >
> >     The "antifa affiliated" person who shot Tiny and Reinoehl are/were
> (slightly?) misaligned with Antifa values. It wouldn't surprise me in the
> slightest if other "antifa affiliated" actually turned him in. Such actions
> produce an alignment of values. But the Proud Boys who assaulted Alissa
> were expressing values very well aligned with the rest of the Proud Boys.
> You can hear it in the clip:
> https://twitter.com/mxtaliajane/status/1434307985359114245 <
> https://twitter.com/mxtaliajane/status/1434307985359114245> with "get
> her", "fucking bitch", maniacal laughter, and "fuck antifa".
> >
> >     I could easily be wrong, of course. There's a strain of antifa who
> do intend to commit violence. But they aren't as prominent in the ranks of
> Antifa as those Proud Boys (like Tiny) who take pride in their commission
> of violence.
> >
> >     On 9/25/21 11:10 AM, Steve Smith wrote:
> >     > I maybe understand Glen's use of several terms more better now.
> >     >
> >     > I heard "value alignment" to refer to the general alignment between
> >     > basis spaces of roughly self-aligned groups and other similar (but
> >     > different) groups.   I think I hear now that Glen was giving the PB
> >     > crowd credit for having a coherent presentation with others while
> acting
> >     > in public.   I don't know what their private discussions/meetings
> look
> >     > like, they may be near anarchy, but by the time they are on the
> street
> >     > the present as a coherent, disciplined group.
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >> Yes, this seems really important to me:
> >     >>
> >     >>> That "antifa affiliated" guy who shot Tiny is probably
> susceptible to peer pressure to *stop* carrying his gun to town, much like
> the Proud Boys coach their participants not to start fights and always
> cooperate with the cops. The more organized Antifa groups, like Rose City
> *do* coach their participants more than the less organized groups do. But
> the difference in both value alignment and tactics is obvious. If you're
> like my colleague, you'll claim this is a "distinction without a
> difference". But the difference is palpable if you're actually present.
> >     >> Living sometimes in Atlanta, where the past of a civil rights
> movement that was purpose-driven, sophisticated, strategic, and disciplined
> has been kept alive a bit more than other places, I watch historical
> footage from the 60s, of strings of people singing quietly and clapping in
> time various religious songs while being herded into police vans, and I am
> awestruck at the dignity and the self-control.  If the current movements
> could get to that, at the scale of the many-more people that they include
> today, we could solve a lot of these problems.
> >     >>
>
>
> --
> "Better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie."
> ☤>$ uǝlƃ
>
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