[FRIAM] Another Stunning Hydrogen Development - Retake Our Democracy

Mon Feb 7 14:52:28 EST 2022

Sorry.  I didn't go to the breeze website.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Mon, Feb 7, 2022, 11:05 AM Frank Wimberly <wimberly3 at gmail.com> wrote:

> How do you compress the air?  Any method I can think of uses energy.  From
> what source?
>
> Frank
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
> On Mon, Feb 7, 2022, 10:57 AM Michael Orshan <morshan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi.  I'm a reader more than a contributor, but the Hydrogen discussion is
>> close to my day to day.
>>
>> Many of us in renewables think Hydrogen might mostly be kick the can as
>> Steve mentioned.  It is something that might be economically feasible in
>> the 2030s and so the length of time oil companies sell oil increases.
>> Having said that, there are a number of very pricey Hydrogen projects
>> getting funded.  That might be showing how profitable the O&G industry is.
>>
>> I'm working with a company we call Breeze <http://www.breezesqueeze.com>.
>> It uses compressed air in pipelines to move turbines at power plants.
>> Without fossil fuels or using water this is getting a lot of attention.
>> There are many advantages such as cold air where compressed air is released
>> that can be used by data centers.  25% of all GHGs come from generating
>> electricity.  45% of all water used in the US is used to create
>> electricity.
>>
>> We see this as a better option than Hydrogen.  We do think Hydrogen fuel
>> cells are a solution for mobile applications.
>>
>> Mike Orshan
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 10:27 AM Steve Smith <sasmyth at swcp.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On 2/6/22 8:31 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://thebulletin.org/2022/01/whether-green-blue-or-turquoise-hydrogen-needs-to-be-clean-and-cheap/
>>>
>>>     *Low-cost fossil fuel resources are finite. Someday it will simply
>>> not be possible to burn oil, natural gas, and coal for the affordable heat,
>>> electricity, and motive power humans need to power their prosperous
>>> societies. *
>>>
>>> Must we always begin with the assumption that growth in terms of
>>> geographical/geometric, material and energy consumption/appropriation are
>>> requisite to continuing/growing a "prosperous society"?   Tangentially (or
>>> not), if "green" hydrogen implies a 2:1 ratio of CO2 production to H2 but
>>> often begins with fossil fuels, it is obviously yet another "kick the can
>>> down the road" solution.   Harvesting solar and direct-solar/lunar-derived
>>> energy (including wind, tidal) and channeling it through our living
>>> (including technological infrastructure and agri-industry) systems to yield
>>> high-entropy "waste heat" seems to be orders of magnitude more sustainable
>>> (if still questionable on some very long time-scale limited by a
>>> Dyson-Sphere-like-limit).    If the H2 is created by cracking H20 (and
>>> capturing both to be recombined later to release energy) using solar (and
>>> other renewables) energy it is a *closed cycle*.  One would presume the
>>> total amount of H2 we would have stored/
>>>
>>> From ecology there comes the observed phenomena of "island syndrome"
>>> which can include island dwarfism and poikilothermy which are both driven
>>> by reducing the demand on finite resources without giving up function or
>>> complexity.
>>>
>>> From Alexander Payne comes the absurdist SciFi flick Downsizing
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downsizing_(film)#Plot> which postulates
>>> by shrinking humans by ???-fold (5 inches tall ~= 12:1 in 1 dimension,
>>> 144:1 in cross section and 1728:1 in volume/mass... )  the movie implies no
>>> change in metabolic rates which would nominally speed up with "shrinkage",
>>> yielding (also) shorter lifespans.   Oh well.. Fiction.   But the point
>>> would seem well taken... Gaia would get a 2000:1 reprieve from our
>>> *current* energy/mass burden on her systems.
>>>
>>> I'm not promoting shrinking people as-such, just noting that our 0th
>>> order instinct is growth, and supralinear if at all possible, up to and
>>> likely achieving Kurzweillian asymptotic resource consumption.
>>>
>>> On that note, I believe that the myriad technological singularity
>>> concepts all point toward increased complexity  and downscaling to extend
>>> the use of material and energy, driving up the effective collective
>>> metabolism of "the system" and paradoxically *increasing* the rate at which
>>> we approach any of the jillion ecophagic gray-goo
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_goo>-like scenarios neo-luddites
>>> like me might contrive.
>>>
>>> I assume (but have not yet poked around for) that Alifers have already
>>> studied the multi-scale *structure* of negative entropy profiles in complex
>>> systems-of-systems.   I think Glen has his ear closer to that rail than
>>> some here?  EricS? ??? I'm still fascinated in the topic but gave up my
>>> little-toenail-purchase in the community in the early 2000s - Symbiotic
>>> Intelligence ALifeVI
>>> <https://cseweb.ucsd.edu//~rik/alife6/papers/SY51.html>.   This reads
>>> so naive yet (mildly) prophetic now...
>>>
>>> All is lost! Flee the solar system!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 6, 2022, at 7:20 PM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> Grey hydrogen?
>>>
>>>
>>> https://retakeourdemocracy.org/2022/02/06/another-stunning-hydrogen-development/
>>>
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