[FRIAM] Another Stunning Hydrogen Development - Retake Our Democracy

Mon Feb 7 18:42:24 EST 2022

The pipeline is rated for 1400psi.  We need 400psi, but might load 700psi
tops at times.

On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 11:33 AM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com> wrote:

> How does the volume and available pressure compare to subterranean storage
> of compressed air?
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Michael Orshan
> *Sent:* Monday, February 7, 2022 9:59 AM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Another Stunning Hydrogen Development - Retake Our
> Democracy
>
>
>
> Hi.  I'm a reader more than a contributor, but the Hydrogen discussion is
> close to my day to day.
>
>
>
> Many of us in renewables think Hydrogen might mostly be kick the can as
> Steve mentioned.  It is something that might be economically feasible in
> the 2030s and so the length of time oil companies sell oil increases.
> Having said that, there are a number of very pricey Hydrogen projects
> getting funded.  That might be showing how profitable the O&G industry is.
>
>
>
> I'm working with a company we call Breeze
> <http://www.breezesqueeze.com%20>.  It uses compressed air in pipelines
> to move turbines at power plants.  Without fossil fuels or using water this
> is getting a lot of attention.  There are many advantages such as cold air
> where compressed air is released that can be used by data centers.  25% of
> all GHGs come from generating electricity.  45% of all water used in the US
> is used to create electricity.
>
>
>
> We see this as a better option than Hydrogen.  We do think Hydrogen fuel
> cells are a solution for mobile applications.
>
>
>
> Mike Orshan
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 10:27 AM Steve Smith <sasmyth at swcp.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 2/6/22 8:31 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>
>
> https://thebulletin.org/2022/01/whether-green-blue-or-turquoise-hydrogen-needs-to-be-clean-and-cheap/
>
>     *Low-cost fossil fuel resources are finite. Someday it will simply
> not be possible to burn oil, natural gas, and coal for the affordable heat,
> electricity, and motive power humans need to power their prosperous
> societies. *
>
> Must we always begin with the assumption that growth in terms of
> geographical/geometric, material and energy consumption/appropriation are
> requisite to continuing/growing a "prosperous society"?   Tangentially (or
> not), if "green" hydrogen implies a 2:1 ratio of CO2 production to H2 but
> often begins with fossil fuels, it is obviously yet another "kick the can
> down the road" solution.   Harvesting solar and direct-solar/lunar-derived
> energy (including wind, tidal) and channeling it through our living
> (including technological infrastructure and agri-industry) systems to yield
> high-entropy "waste heat" seems to be orders of magnitude more sustainable
> (if still questionable on some very long time-scale limited by a
> Dyson-Sphere-like-limit).    If the H2 is created by cracking H20 (and
> capturing both to be recombined later to release energy) using solar (and
> other renewables) energy it is a *closed cycle*.  One would presume the
> total amount of H2 we would have stored/
>
> From ecology there comes the observed phenomena of "island syndrome" which
> can include island dwarfism and poikilothermy which are both driven by
> reducing the demand on finite resources without giving up function or
> complexity.
>
> From Alexander Payne comes the absurdist SciFi flick Downsizing
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downsizing_(film)#Plot> which postulates
> by shrinking humans by ???-fold (5 inches tall ~= 12:1 in 1 dimension,
> 144:1 in cross section and 1728:1 in volume/mass... )  the movie implies no
> change in metabolic rates which would nominally speed up with "shrinkage",
> yielding (also) shorter lifespans.   Oh well.. Fiction.   But the point
> would seem well taken... Gaia would get a 2000:1 reprieve from our
> *current* energy/mass burden on her systems.
>
> I'm not promoting shrinking people as-such, just noting that our 0th order
> instinct is growth, and supralinear if at all possible, up to and likely
> achieving Kurzweillian asymptotic resource consumption.
>
> On that note, I believe that the myriad technological singularity concepts
> all point toward increased complexity  and downscaling to extend the use of
> material and energy, driving up the effective collective metabolism of "the
> system" and paradoxically *increasing* the rate at which we approach any of
> the jillion ecophagic gray-goo <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_goo>-like
> scenarios neo-luddites like me might contrive.
>
> I assume (but have not yet poked around for) that Alifers have already
> studied the multi-scale *structure* of negative entropy profiles in complex
> systems-of-systems.   I think Glen has his ear closer to that rail than
> some here?  EricS? ??? I'm still fascinated in the topic but gave up my
> little-toenail-purchase in the community in the early 2000s - Symbiotic
> Intelligence ALifeVI
> <https://cseweb.ucsd.edu/~rik/alife6/papers/SY51.html>.   This reads so
> naive yet (mildly) prophetic now...
>
> All is lost! Flee the solar system!
>
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 6, 2022, at 7:20 PM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com wrote:
>
> 
>
> Grey hydrogen?
>
>
> https://retakeourdemocracy.org/2022/02/06/another-stunning-hydrogen-development/
>
>
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