[FRIAM] YAC - yet another cult

[glen]

Well, it's not that atheism is misogynist. It's that male atheists, like males everywhere, tend to (have been) misogynist. There was a #metoo movement in the atheist community that preceded the more general one. I remember back in Portland when Michael Shermer visited our CFI group, I overheard 3 of the women there discussing his womanizing tendencies. Being a privied white male, I had no idea whether what they were saying was based in fact or rumor. But I tend to believe them. Plus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Shermer#Allegations_of_sexual_harassment

On 7/19/22 08:15, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> It hadn't occurred to me that atheism would be or be perceived as misogynistic.   Being anti-community might suggest that because women are more likely to maintain intimate friendships than men, so if one disparages that it is against women?   My disdain for community is more a disdain for localism.   Don't build up needless social barriers.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of glen
> Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2022 7:23 AM
> To: friam at redfish.com
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] YAC - yet another cult
> 
> Well, there's a significant overlap between faith, community, trust, belonging, etc. It seems to me like there's a large inter-individual variance for where people land on the various dimensions. Catholicism is catholic precisely because it covers a large ball of the whole space, or at least used to seem that way to me. I've known several atheist Catholics over my lifetime, perhaps not as large as atheist Jews, but still large. Allowing people to slip smoothly from literal to metaphorical on any subject optimizes for community and belonging. Bob thinks he's eating actual flesh, but Sally thinks it's just a cracker. Nobody cares what you think. Just eat the damned thing and say Amen.
> 
> And that's something non-religious atheists don't really have (though they clearly *want* it: https://seattleatheist.church/). The recent explosion of pent-up misogyny exposure in the Atheist and A+ communities demonstrates that fairly well and justifies your opinion to some extent. Atheism really is a *lack* of something, a negative attribute. And that's one of the reasons I tend to avoid identifying as an atheist and prefer agnostic ... or "free thinker" if you need such a phrase. I'm a "seeker", not an atheist, trying to maintain a steady donning and doffing of belief systems, trying to see what fits. Back when I had a Facebook account, my religion was "syncretic pantheism in a rhizomic bath". It's the closest I can come to a positive belief that fits.
> 
> On 7/18/22 16:36, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>> There seems to be a spiritual aspect to adopting beliefs in absence of evidence, or especially in situations where contrary evidence is available.  Guru following could just be a motivated way to gain a sense of belonging and escape the weight of admitting that life is so uncertain.  Liberal churches can be overt about the desire to facilitate community even with relatively little dogma.   It isn't even the case that religions have all that carefully of constructed unfalsifiable belief systems either.   So, it isn't just a matter of doing the faith exercise -- usually religions demand a little more and make sketchy commitments to observable facts that require apology at some point.   (Like becoming initiated in an organized crime family.)
>>
>> I've never found the criticism of atheism as being too strong of a truth claim (a belief) convincing.  Atheism (or nihilism) are more assertions about classes of unproductive behaviors that don't facilitate getting to the bottom of things.  Atheism is a caution against adopting a class of beliefs.   It is a meta rule for knowledge acquisition.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of glen
>> Sent: Monday, July 18, 2022 3:31 PM
>> To: friam at redfish.com
>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] YAC - yet another cult
>>
>> Yeah, cult and religion are fuzzy concepts. But I like the way it's characterized in the Gurometer:
>>
>> 2. Cultishness
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/19PKXFn3qrzWr6nx622g9cEzyNBow0svQs_dN4fP3hjY/edit
>>
>>
>> On 7/18/22 15:00, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>>> I have never been clear on the difference between a cult and a religion besides inertia.  (I started watching Under the Banner of Heaven, and that checks the boxes for me.)
>>>
>>> Somewhat relatedly, was looking at the Berkeley PD budget and noticed that they pulled back 23 sworn officers after George Floyd murder.   That would seem to be a smart political calculation because they didn't give up the positions, they just deferred them.   And in San Francisco, I was wondering what all the fuss was about with the DA, given that the crime numbers are in some dimensions improved.   https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crime-dashboard
>>>
>>> The loudmouths here are all conservatives and reactionary types, like everywhere.  Say the world is dangerous enough times, and people start believing it.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of glen
>>> Sent: Monday, July 18, 2022 1:59 PM
>>> To: friam at redfish.com
>>> Subject: [FRIAM] YAC - yet another cult
>>>
>>> Triggered by this article:
>>>
>>> Abortion Rights Activists Call New Group Leading Protests a Front for a Far-Left Cult https://theintercept.com/2022/07/14/rise-up-4-abortion-rights-protests-revcom/
>>>
>>> I spent my insomnia from 01:30-03:00 trying to find a complete criticism of RevComm. I largely failed. But the RationalWiki provides a good quick take:
>>>
>>> Revolutionary Communist Party (US)
>>> https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Communist_Party_(US)
>>> --
>>
> 

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