[FRIAM] Web 3 is going great!
Eric Charles
eric.phillip.charles at gmail.com
Wed Jun 1 11:04:10 EDT 2022
The MLM is only a problem if a) they make you put in a big investment of
capital or b) you actually think you will get rich off of it. If you don't
have to outlay cash, and you think you'll get some tupperware (or whatever)
and make a few $100 out of it, and then you actually get some tupperware
and make a few $100 out of it, then everything about it is fine. If, in
contrast, they make you get an initial purchase of $10,000 worth of
product, with promises you'll flip it for $50,000 in no time, and that
you'll recruit people under you for passive income that is more than that
annually, and then none of that happens and you are stuck with $10K worth
of junk you couldn't afford in your garage... then you have a problem.
So, I agree with what you said regarding being "complicit", so long as we
agree that you only "complicit" in the activity you are part of - that is,
I don't think it is fair to label someone as complitic with anything that
vaguely resembles the thing they are part of. For example, if someone is in
an innocuous local riding club, they are not thereby complicit in the
existence of biker gangs. If someone claimed, "You are in a group that
rides together, and some groups that ride together also kill people, so you
are complicit in those deaths" neither of us would think that was a good
argument... right?
Even the technical savvy doesn't distinguish a Web3 scam from a non-web3
scam as much as you would think. Pretty much every real life scam is based
on information asymmetry, and much of leans on a lack of technical
sophistication in the buyer. It's different technical skills, to be sure,
but the inability to trace out what's included in a credit-default swap is
technical in the same way the inability to read smart-contract code is
technical.
Scams exist in real life, all over the place. Even A+++ rated securities
can turn out to be garbage, and the rating companies are still in business
and somehow still trusted. It is baffling all over.
If there is something that Web3 adds to the general problem of scams, it is
that often you can't know who the agents are. Not just that you don't know,
but it could be undeterminable, due to the additional anonymity that is not
possible with a live MLM or investment scam. That was leaned on heavily in
the article Roger and Frank shared. Someone can claim to be a member of a
certain race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orinetation, etc., but if you never
see them, how would you know? Answer: You wouldn't. So if that is *THE*
reason you are getting into a project, don't do it unless the founders are
completely doxxed. Easy day.
<echarles at american.edu>
On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 10:14 AM glen <gepropella at gmail.com> wrote:
> Interesting take. It reminds me of Stockholm Syndrome and abusive
> relationships. I've made disruptive runs at ad hominem, hume's guillotine,
> appeal to authority, and petitio principii. I have yet to make a run at the
> slippery slope. I had 2 recent opportunities to do so, 1) regarding consent
> and 2) re: populism. My bougie post is a bit of a start and your defense of
> MLM propogation is similar. Peter Singer gives us a foundation by arguing
> that bestiality doesn't *necessarily* represent the abuse of animals. Maybe
> the sheep likes it when the farmer has their way? Maybe we should take
> Alison Mack's explicit *consent* to becoming a branded slave and slave
> recruiter seriously? Maybe the wife enjoys being beaten?
>
> These slopes are obviously slippery. But one that's not so obvious is the
> asymmetric relationship between the actually powerful and the bougie. E.g.
> when *I* buy crypto, given that I not only know what they are, what
> distributed ledgers are, how to do some cryptography, a bit of math, a lot
> of programming, a lot of systems engineering and supply chain analysis, I
> really am giving my consent. Like you say, the person selling the Amway
> products just because they enjoy it and like some of the products isn't
> necessarily being scammed or scamming others.
>
> The problem is analogous to the redefinition of racism. Racism used to be
> widely used to *cover* individual prejudice. But as the language evolves,
> racism is coming to target less visible, systemic infrastructure. The
> small-minded right doesn't see that. The intellectual right does see it,
> but purposefully obfuscates. Buying Amway products makes you complicit,
> whether you understand that or not. ... similar to the insanity defense. I
> actually don't care if you murdered 17 children because you're insane or
> radicalized by Fox News or whatever. You still need to die, humanely,
> regardless of your motivations. Ideas don't matter. Actions do. Maybe
> that's why I can't bring myself to make a full-throated defense of slippery
> sloped conclusions like bestiality or "radical democracy".
>
>
> On 5/31/22 21:29, Eric Charles wrote:
> > Alternate take: Web3 is doing just fine.
> >
> > Identity politics is bad in all contexts, including when it's used to
> get people to buy things they otherwise wouldn't buy (which is the main
> focus of the Molly White article). Also, Pyramid schemes are bad anywhere
> you find them, not just on the web, and certainly not just in web3. Oh, and
> also you can manipulate people by giving them a false sense of security...
> well... no shit.
> >
> > But also, if people are getting a thing they want, then that isn't a
> scam. If you go to a tupperware party put on a friend, because you need
> tupperware, and might as well buy it there, and then you buy it there, and
> later the tupperware that you wanted arrives, that simply isn't a bad
> thing. The tupperware sales scheme might even be an MLM, but that doesn't
> mean you got scammed when you bought a container, it just means your friend
> probably isn't going to get rich off the whole thing.
> >
> > Here is a link to an NFT that looks to be a pure pyramid scheme, you
> shouldn't buy it.... but hey... if you get in early maybe you will get
> lucky and the scheme will work:
> https://opensea.io/assets/ethereum/0xa8089bf595f2b2ada60b24224fcdc411cf0a40da/300
> <
> https://opensea.io/assets/ethereum/0xa8089bf595f2b2ada60b24224fcdc411cf0a40da/300
> >
> >
> > Here is a link to an NFT minting that is being put on by PokerGo, which
> is a known, real world company, that runs tons of tournaments, has a
> production studio, and has its own streaming service for poker (including
> the biggest back list anywhere), and if you get the NFT it comes with free
> membership to their streaming service. So, if you figure you are going to
> pay for their streaming service for a year or two, you probably want to buy
> this NFT. PokerGO Genesis NFT Collection - Collection | OpenSea <
> https://opensea.io/collection/pokergo-genesis-nft-collection>
> >
> > If eth goes to zero tomorrow (which it won't), as long as PokerGo honors
> the streaming membership, it will be a fine purchase. If eth goes up and/or
> there is a run on PokerGo NFTs, and I can sell at a profit in a year or
> two, that would be even better, but it isn't necessary for the purchase to
> make sense.
> >
> > (Technically the PokerGo NFT is still in mint, so you actually want to
> "mint" not "buy", but let's not complicate things....)
> >
> > Best,
> > Eric
> >
> >
> >
> > -----------
> > Eric P. Charles, Ph.D.
> > Senior Workforce Analyst
> > Human Capital Management Office
> > Defense Counterintelligence and Security Agency (DCSA)
> > American University - Adjunct Instructor
> > <mailto:echarles at american.edu>
> >
> >
> > On Mon, May 30, 2022 at 7:47 AM Frank Wimberly <wimberly3 at gmail.com
> <mailto:wimberly3 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > I have too many subscriptions but there's this from the source
> >
> > https://blog.mollywhite.net/predatory-community/ <
> https://blog.mollywhite.net/predatory-community/>
> >
> > ---
> > Frank C. Wimberly
> > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> > Santa Fe, NM 87505
> >
> > 505 670-9918
> > Santa Fe, NM
> >
> > On Mon, May 30, 2022, 4:53 AM Roger Critchlow <rec at elf.org <mailto:
> rec at elf.org>> wrote:
> >
> >
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/05/29/molly-white-crypto/ <
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/05/29/molly-white-crypto/>
> >
> > -- rec --
> >
> > On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 8:17 PM glen <gepropella at gmail.com
> <mailto:gepropella at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Ha! No, I won't be buying any NFTs. I do still hold out some
> hope for distributed computation, however naïve. My Ada is staked. And I'm
> sporadically re-piqued by FileCoin and AR. But the anti-crypto rants are
> fantastic. Perfect examples of healthy criticism. This one was a lot of fun:
> >
> > Web3.0: A Libertarian Dystopia
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-sNSjS8cq0 <
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-sNSjS8cq0>
> >
> > On 5/27/22 17:02, Roger Critchlow wrote:
> > > The longer-form, less sarcastic thoughts on web3 are also
> good reading, https://blog.mollywhite.net/blockchain/ <
> https://blog.mollywhite.net/blockchain/> <
> https://blog.mollywhite.net/blockchain/ <
> https://blog.mollywhite.net/blockchain/>>, though the rate at which
> things are going great is pretty hilarious. Who knew the future would
> bring us serial rug-pullers?
> > > -- rec --
> > >
> > >
> > > -- rec --
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 6:31 PM Marcus Daniels <
> marcus at snoutfarm.com <mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com> <mailto:
> marcus at snoutfarm.com <mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com>>> wrote:
> > >
> > > So you won’t be buying commemorative NFTs of the
> Heard/Depp verdict?
> > >
> > > > On May 27, 2022, at 1:51 PM, glen <
> gepropella at gmail.com <mailto:gepropella at gmail.com> <mailto:
> gepropella at gmail.com <mailto:gepropella at gmail.com>>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > ...and is definitely not an enormous grift that's
> pouring lighter fluid on our already-smoldering planet.
> > > >
> > > > https://web3isgoinggreat.com/ <
> https://web3isgoinggreat.com/> <https://web3isgoinggreat.com/ <
> https://web3isgoinggreat.com/>>
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙
>
> --
> Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙
>
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