[FRIAM] more structure-based mind-reading

[Marcus Daniels]

If you want to create the appearance of a bond where none exists, get to work.   Once one recognizes the nature of work it is easy.

On Sep 1, 2022, at 6:25 PM, Prof David West <profwest at fastmail.fm> wrote:


From glen: "If you want to share values with some arbitrary shmoe, then get to
      *work*. Build something or cooperate on a common task. Talking,
      communicating, is inadequate at best, disinfo at worst."

This is kinda the whole point of Participant Observation at the core of cultural anthropology. The premise is you cannot truly understand a culture until you live it.

Of course, there is still a boundary, a separation, between the anthropologist and those with whom she interacts, but sweat, calluses, blood, and emotions go a long way toward establishing actual understanding.

davew

On Thu, Sep 1, 2022, at 12:30 PM, Steve Smith wrote:


On 9/1/22 11:21 AM, glen wrote:
Inter-brain synchronization occurs without physical co-presence during cooperative online gaming
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0028393222001750

There's a lot piled into the aggregate measures of EEG. And the mere fact of the canalization conflates the unifying tendencies of the objective (shared purpose) with that of the common structure (virtual world, interface, body, brain). But overall, it argues against this guru focus on "sense-making" (hermeneutic, monistic reification) and helps argue for the fundamental plurality, openness, and stochasticity of "language games".

If you want to share values with some arbitrary shmoe, then get to *work*. Build something or cooperate on a common task. Talking, communicating, is inadequate at best, disinfo at worst.

I agree somewhat with the spirit of this, however a recent writer/book I discovered is Sand Talk<https://www.harpercollins.com/products/sand-talk-tyson-yunkaporta?variant=32280908103714> by Tyson Yunkaporta and more specifically his references to "Yarning" in his indigenous Australian culture offered me a complementary perspective...

I definitely agree that the "building of something together" is a powerful world-building/negotiating/collaborative/seeking experience.   The social sciences use the term Boundary Object<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boundary_object> and Boundary Negotiation Artifact.    Jenny and I wrote a draft white-paper on the topic of the SimTable as a "boundary negotiating artifact" last time she visited (2019?).    A lot of computer-graphics/visualization products provide fill this role, but the physicality of a sand-table with it's tactility and multiple perspectives add yet more.   The soap-box racer or fort you build with your friend as a kid provides the same.   The bulk of my best relationships in life involved "building something together" whether it be a software system or a house...

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