[FRIAM] more structure-based mind-reading

Fri Sep 2 10:39:07 EDT 2022

I was reading a passage (from this List?) to my wife.  My 20 month old
granddaughter wanted to say something so she said to me, "Top it!  Top
it!". That strengthened the bond I feel with her.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Fri, Sep 2, 2022, 8:17 AM glen <gepropella at gmail.com> wrote:

> OK. But the affinity and "inner self" alluded to by the phrase "faking it"
> is nothing but a personality momentum, a build-up of past behaviors, like a
> fly-wheel spun up by all the previous affinities and faking of it. We faked
> it in our mom's womb, faked it as babies, faked it as children on the
> playground or in class, etc. all the way up to the last time we faked it
> digging ditches or pair programming in Java.
>
> The only difference between feeling an affinity and engaging in a new
> faking it exercise is the extent to which the new collaboration is similar
> to the previous collaborations. As both Steve and Dave point out, spend
> enough time living in a world and you'll grow affine to that world (and the
> world will grow affine to you).
>
> I suppose it's reasonable to posit a spectrum (or a higher dim space) on
> which some people have particularly inertial fly-wheels and others have
> more easily disturbed things that store less energy. Of the Big 5, my guess
> would be neuroticism would be most inertial. Perhaps openness and
> agreeableness would be the least inertial.
>
>
>
> On 9/2/22 05:35, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> > There are many common tasks that parties could direct their attention
> toward.   This happens at companies, prison cafeterias, and churches.
>  That it is grounded in a particular way doesn't make it any truer, or
> anyone more committed to it.   We are often forced to participate in
> cultures we don't care about, and faking it is an important skill.   Just
> because someone sweats or gets calluses or tolerates others' inappropriate
> emotions in some circle of people, doesn't mean there is any affinity
> toward that circle.   Oh look, he dug a hole.  I dug a hole.    Sure, I'd
> do those kind of performative activities if I were a politician, as I bet
> there are people who think this way.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of glen
> > Sent: Friday, September 2, 2022 12:06 AM
> > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] more structure-based mind-reading
> >
> > And, of course, there is no such thing except appearance. What could it
> possibly mean to say that an appearance of a bond exists, but no actual
> bond exists?
> >
> > On September 1, 2022 7:29:45 PM PDT, Marcus Daniels <
> marcus at snoutfarm.com> wrote:
> >> If you want to create the appearance of a bond where none exists, get
> to work.   Once one recognizes the nature of work it is easy.
> >>
> >> On Sep 1, 2022, at 6:25 PM, Prof David West <profwest at fastmail.fm>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> 
> >>From glen: "If you want to share values with some arbitrary shmoe, then
> get to
> >>       *work*. Build something or cooperate on a common task. Talking,
> >>       communicating, is inadequate at best, disinfo at worst."
> >>
> >> This is kinda the whole point of Participant Observation at the core of
> cultural anthropology. The premise is you cannot truly understand a culture
> until you live it.
> >>
> >> Of course, there is still a boundary, a separation, between the
> anthropologist and those with whom she interacts, but sweat, calluses,
> blood, and emotions go a long way toward establishing actual understanding.
> >>
> >> davew
> >>
> >> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022, at 12:30 PM, Steve Smith wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On 9/1/22 11:21 AM, glen wrote:
> >> Inter-brain synchronization occurs without physical co-presence during
> cooperative online gaming
> >> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0028393222001750
> >>
> >> There's a lot piled into the aggregate measures of EEG. And the mere
> fact of the canalization conflates the unifying tendencies of the objective
> (shared purpose) with that of the common structure (virtual world,
> interface, body, brain). But overall, it argues against this guru focus on
> "sense-making" (hermeneutic, monistic reification) and helps argue for the
> fundamental plurality, openness, and stochasticity of "language games".
> >>
> >> If you want to share values with some arbitrary shmoe, then get to
> *work*. Build something or cooperate on a common task. Talking,
> communicating, is inadequate at best, disinfo at worst.
> >>
> >> I agree somewhat with the spirit of this, however a recent writer/book
> I discovered is Sand Talk<
> https://www.harpercollins.com/products/sand-talk-tyson-yunkaporta?variant=32280908103714>
> by Tyson Yunkaporta and more specifically his references to "Yarning" in
> his indigenous Australian culture offered me a complementary perspective...
> >>
> >> I definitely agree that the "building of something together" is a
> powerful world-building/negotiating/collaborative/seeking experience.   The
> social sciences use the term Boundary Object<
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boundary_object> and Boundary Negotiation
> Artifact.    Jenny and I wrote a draft white-paper on the topic of the
> SimTable as a "boundary negotiating artifact" last time she visited
> (2019?).    A lot of computer-graphics/visualization products provide fill
> this role, but the physicality of a sand-table with it's tactility and
> multiple perspectives add yet more.   The soap-box racer or fort you build
> with your friend as a kid provides the same.   The bulk of my best
> relationships in life involved "building something together" whether it be
> a software system or a house...
>
>
> --
> ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ
>
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