[FRIAM] signal and noise

[Steve Smith]

On 9/9/22 5:56 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> A genome wide association study (GWAS) using a set of full human genome sequences, or a set of exome sequences is the same, it is just a question of which DNA is used.   Some nucleotides code for proteins and some code for things like how much of the protein to make, under what circumstances.   It's like arbitrarily choosing to extract some chapters of a book as relevant and others as not relevant.   Same goes for microbiome or other omics sources.  Thus, why consider one book when there is a whole library to consider?    For one thing the bar to get over for statistically interesting signals gets higher and higher as more tests are done -- the things that happen by chance DO happen in a sea of possibility.   The combinatorics of everything to everything is computationally impossible with 3 billion nucleotides in the human genome alone.   Choices must be made about what is relevant.

And gently twisting a few threads together to see if they might become a 
"yarn of interest"...

    1) this point
    2) Indras net - "All contextualizes All"
    3) Wolpert and whatever he (and Glen) are gesturing at which is
    above the Flatland (hyper)Plane we currently exist in.

A. Square.

>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Friam<friam-bounces at redfish.com>  On Behalf Ofthompnickson2 at gmail.com
> Sent: Friday, September 9, 2022 10:23 AM
> To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'<friam at redfish.com>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] signal and noise
>
> David,
>
> I was with you until "signal is the noise".  Great Koan, but otherwise useless for thought.
>
> When you say, however, that there is a signal in what others take to be noise, of course I have to prick up my ears.  A great example of this was that "junk" DNA which turned out to be, at least, structural.  It also turned out to be a mind of memory.  Junk Schmunk.
>
> N
>
> Nick Thompson
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Friam<friam-bounces at redfish.com>  On Behalf Of Prof David West
> Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2022 7:12 PM
> To:friam at redfish.com
> Subject: [FRIAM] signal and noise
>
> It seems, to me, that several conversations here—AI, hallucinogens, consciousness, participant observation, and epistemology—have a common aspect: a body of "data" and disagreement over which subset should be attended to (Signal) and that which is irrelevant (Noise).
>
> Arguments for sorting/categorization would include: lack of a Peircian convergence/consensus; inability to propose proper experiments; anecdotal versus systematic collection; an absolute conviction that everything is algorithmic and, even if the algorithm has yet to be discerned, it, ultimately, must be; etc..
>
> I often feel as if my positions on these various topics reduces, in some sense, to a conviction that there is overlooked Signal in everyone else's Noise; even to the point of believing the Noise IS the Signal.
>
> Is this in any way a "fair' or "reasonable" analysis?
>
> davew
>
> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoomhttps://bit.ly/virtualfriam
> to (un)subscribehttp://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIChttp://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives:  5/2017 thru presenthttps://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>    1/2003 thru 6/2021http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>
>
> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoomhttps://bit.ly/virtualfriam
> to (un)subscribehttp://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIChttp://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives:  5/2017 thru presenthttps://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>    1/2003 thru 6/2021http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoomhttps://bit.ly/virtualfriam
> to (un)subscribehttp://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIChttp://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives:  5/2017 thru presenthttps://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>    1/2003 thru 6/2021http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20220910/14d189d4/attachment.html>